Google is evil thread

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:34 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:There should also be no expectation that an invitation to comment on management is ever anything but hypocritical window dressing.

That's what unions are for.

Every so often we have a "confidential...but not anonymous" survey about various things, with opportunity to comment.

Guess who leaves that comment box empty? Go on, guess.

Each time they promise to share the results with us. Each time that never happens, lol...and each time, the executives are quite pissed off for about a month.

I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, wasn't born yesterday, don't take plugged nickels, etc.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Witness » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:12 am

Pyrrho wrote:and each time, the executives are quite pissed off for about a month.

Made me :lol:

Image

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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Skeeve » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:50 am

One more interview with the author of the 'GOOGLE MEMO'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2J5E8sSdsI
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Skeeve » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:39 pm

Point
Google employees say the company's not doing enough to protect them from harassment, threats

SAN FRANCISCO — The firing of Google engineer James Damore for suggesting men are more suited to technical roles than women has triggered a culture war inside the Internet giant, with some Google employees saying the company is not doing enough to protect them from a harassment campaign that has subjected them to hateful comments and violent threats.

These employees, many of whom volunteer as diversity advocates, say they've been targeted by some of their own coworkers for fighting to bring greater diversity to Google's 78,000-plus staff of mostly white and Asian men.


Counterpoint

I’m An Ex-Google Woman Tech Leader And I’m Sick Of Our Approach To Diversity!

I ran cross-functional engineering projects managing 20–30 men (engineers mostly) at Google. Most of the time, I was the only woman. Men who reported to me liked and respected me. Men who managed me liked and respected me.
...
I left Google to build UrbanAMA. As a woman entrepreneur, I wanted to build a company that had a diverse team. I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve failed miserably so far.

We try hard, but again find ourselves with a 98% male candidate pool. You should know that we are an early stage startup that cannot afford market salaries. Despite that, we paid premium salaries to bring a few women who did well in our interviews. But, they lacked the energy to put us into overdrive. Worse, they were starting to drain the energy from the rest of the team. Eventually, we had to do the right thing for the company and let them go. I’m now back to being the only woman on the (tech) team.
...
After diversity attempts at large companies and my own startup and the attempts to start tech early with my own children, I can tell you that our obsession with diversity and attempts to solve it are only fucking it up for the actual women in tech out there!

What do I mean by this?

We get upset about the state of gender diversity in tech

We make a pact to hire more women

The pool has (a lot) more men than women

After some rounds of low to no success, we start to compromise and hire women just because we have to.

Gender quotas!
Yes a success, a flaming success...
but I digress, let her tell it.
These women show up at work and perform not as great as we want them to.

It reinforces to the male population that was already peeved by the diversity push that women aren’t that good at tech after all.

They generalize that observation on the entire women in tech community.

Sooner or later, some such opinions get out there.

The feminists amongst us go crazy.

The diversity advocates are caught in a frenzy and make a pact to hire more women (again).

This loops. Infinitely.

In the name of diversity, when we fill quotas to check boxes, we fuck it up for the genuinely amazing women in tech.

And this makes me sick.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby ed » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:44 pm

They are not diversity advocates, they are sexist advocates.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Skeeve » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:26 pm

From a recent tweet:


The article: YouTube CEO calls tech a 'very geeky male industry'

The lack of diversity in tech isn't a new issue, and yet top leaders in Silicon Valley still struggle to talk about it.
...
Swisher started the conversation by addressing Wojcicki and calling out the statistic that two in 10 employees at Google are women.

"Everyone talks about Silicon Valley as a meritocracy, I see it as a mirror-tocracy, meaning white guys look at each other and hire each other, essentially. What — where are we on this and what do you think needs to happen?" Swisher asked.

To which Wojcicki replied, "I think the problem is, is that computer science as a whole and tech as a whole has a reputation of being a very geeky male industry. And so if you look, not within the industry, but just as an educational pipeline, you see that we only have 20 percent of women graduating with computer science degrees, and that’s a problem in and of itself, because that means we don’t have enough people graduating who have those degrees. And you say, well, why is that? I think it has to do with these perceptions that the computer industry is, a geeky, not very interesting, not social industries, and it just couldn’t be further from the truth."

Swisher interrupted Wojcicki with a brief, "Come on." And later, "I'm going to — I'm going to disagree with you [on] that strongly."


:lol:
Last edited by Skeeve on Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:34 pm

lol is right. So are they going to fire him?

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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Skeeve » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:09 pm

Rob Lister wrote:lol is right. So are they going to fire him?


Doubtful... meanwhile James Damore launches Infomercial, it's short and succinct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9_o42QaVnA

Very nicely done IMHO,...YMMV.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Bruce » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:03 pm

Thanks, Skeeve. I can relate. I write scientific reports every day that clients complain about without actually reading them. The corporate environment does horrible things to the brains of people, especially those who are put in charge of managing other people. The larger the corporation, the scarier it gets.
Such potential!

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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Skeeve » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:24 pm

Setback for James Damore: U.S. National Labor Relations Board rejected Damore's claim that Google fired him unjustly

A federal body overseeing labor disputes advised the dismissal of Jeremy Damore's claim that Google fired him unjustly for his controversial memo regarding inclusion and diversity programs at the company.
...
It's not the end of the road for Damore, though this decisive refutation of his complaint is a significant and public setback. He has also filed a class action lawsuit against the company and is agitating in other ways against the political correctness he feels led to his dismissal.


Who knows what will happen next.
We'll see....
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby ed » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:37 pm

A guy named Swisher should not comment on gender issues.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Anaxagoras » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:52 am

Seen in The Atlantic:

The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM

A new study explores a strange paradox: In countries that empower women, they are less likely to choose math and science professions.

Image
A scatterplot of countries based on their number of female STEM graduates and their Global Gender Gap Index (y-axis), a measure of opportunities for women (Psychological Science)
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Anaxagoras » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:10 am

Google’s fired engineer sexually harassed co-workers via memo, says U.S. labor board lawyer

The memo itself constituted "sexual harassment" according to a lawyer. :roll:

Fired Google software engineer James Damore’s controversial memo on gender issues in the workplace constituted sexual harassment and the Mountain View tech giant was right to sack him, a federal labor board memo said.

Damore’s discrimination lawsuit against Google will not be affected by the claims in the National Labor Relations Board memo, which mischaracterizes allegations against Damore as sexual harassment, said his lawyer Harmeet Dhillon.

But Google is likely to use the memo to defend itself against the lawsuit filed by Damore, said a San Francisco employment lawyer.

The Jan. 16 federal labor board memo, from a labor board lawyer to the regulator’s Oakland-based regional director, said Damore’s “statements about immutable traits linked to sex — such as women’s heightened neuroticism and men’s prevalence at the top of the IQ distribution — were discriminatory and constituted sexual harassment, notwithstanding effort to cloak comments with ‘scientific’ references and analysis, and notwithstanding ‘not all women’ disclaimers.”

“Those statements were likely to cause serious dissension and disruption in the workplace. Indeed, the memorandum did cause extreme discord,” the labor board memo said. “Numerous employees complained to the Employer that the memorandum was discriminatory against women, deeply offensive, and made them feel unsafe at work.”
Of his subsequent firing, the labor board memo said Google acted appropriately in terminating him only for statements not protected by law — and that Google did not fire him over his comments “expressing a dissenting view on matters affecting working conditions or offering critical feedback of its policies and programs, which were likely protected.”


That's an interesting angle. "Expressing a dissenting view on matters affecting working conditions or offering critical feedback of its policies and programs" would be protected by law, but his memo itself, even though not directed at any individual person or persons, was an act of sexual harassment and thus not protected. This is the legal opinion of the National Labor Relations Board.

In other news, Damore was not the only one to be fired:

Google Fired and Disciplined Employees for Speaking Out About Diversity

Tim Chevalier, who was fired in November 2017 from his role as a site reliability engineer at Google after he made several internal posts calling out racism and sexism at the company, sued Google today for discrimination, harassment, retaliation, and wrongful termination. Chevalier, who is transgender, queer, and disabled, alleges that Google failed to protect its female, minority, and LGBTQ employees from harassment on internal forums—but was quick to crack down on those employees when they spoke out about their experiences with racism, sexism, and homophobia at work.

Chevalier is one of four current and former Google employees who said they were disciplined for speaking out internally against racism and sexism—speech that Google allegedly deemed discriminatory toward white men. One of them requested anonymity because they are not authorized to speak publicly about their experiences at Google. The earliest examples documented by Gizmodo occurred in 2016, before Damore began working on his memo, but Google’s efforts appear to have escalated after the memo was published.

Google did not respond to multiple phone calls and emails from Gizmodo requesting comment prior to the publication of this story. In a statement provided after publication, Google spokesperson Gina Scigliano said, “An important part of our culture is lively debate. But like any workplace, that doesn’t mean anything goes. All employees acknowledge our code of conduct and other workplace policies, under which promoting harmful stereotypes based on race or gender is prohibited. This is a very standard expectation that most employers have of their employees. The overwhelming majority of our employees communicate in a way that is consistent with our policies. But when an employee does not, it is something we must take seriously. We always make our decision without any regard to the employee’s political views.”

Colin McMillen, a staff software engineer at Google who has worked at the company for eight years, said he was reprimanded by human resources for an internal post in which he stated he did not want to work with individuals who shared Damore’s beliefs. Bridget Spitznagel, an engineer who left Google last spring, said human resources demanded that she remove an internal post that linked to information about an upcoming racial justice workshop. Another former employee described being disciplined for a comment defending one of Google’s recruitment programs.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby WildCat » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:18 am

Idiocy.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Anaxagoras » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:45 am

This is a blog post by Tim Chevalier, the transgender man who is now suing Google for wrongful termination. This blog post is apparently one of the reasons why he was fired:

https://tim.dreamwidth.org/2035407.html

He starts out by likening Damore's memo to the screeds of Marc Lépine and Elliot Rodger, both mass murderers who felt aggrieved by womankind and feminists in particular. The straw is thick here. He declares the memo to be in the same category as these mass-murder screeds and then criticizes those.
The irony meter breaks when he gets to the part about "Verbal abuse tactics"

Verbal abuse tactics
Bancroft lists the four critical characteristics of an abusive argument:

1. The abuser sees an argument as war.
2. She is always wrong in his eyes.
3. He has an array of control tactics in conflicts. Just a few that Bancroft lists:
  • Sarcasm
  • Ridicule
  • Distorting what you say
  • Accusing you of doing what he does, or thinking the way he thinks
  • Using a tone of absolute certainty and final authority --"Defining reality"
  • Not listening, refusing to respond
  • Changing the subject to his grievances
  • Provoking guilt
  • Playing the victim
4. He makes sure to get his way -- by one means or another.

We see all four of these in the Googler's manifesto

Not so much in Damore's memo, but we certainly see at least most of them in this blog post. Sees it as a war, check. Distorting what you say, check. Accusing you of doing what he does, check. Using a tone of absolute certainty and final authority --"Defining reality", double check. Changing the subject to his grievances, provoking guilt and playing the victim, check in spades.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Doctor X » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:54 am

You no doubt noticed that in his screed the villain is male and the victim is female.

Just like advertisements where the woman is always clever and browbeats the dumb man.

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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Anaxagoras » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:01 am

Also little things like calling it a manifesto rather than a memo. Manifesto just somehow sounds more sinister. The Unabomber wrote a manifesto, not a memo. Terrorists write manifestos. In the whole screed, it is always a manifesto, never a memo, so I think it was a conscious choice of words.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Skeeve » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:59 pm

Perhaps this should go on the SJW war against us thread, still.....

Antifa targets ‘Google memo’ author James Damore’s talk at Portland State

It’s not unusual for an uproar to erupt on college campuses when a conservative such as Ben Shapiro wants to make an appearance.

But a bitter brouhaha over a Silicon Valley techie?

That’s what’s happening at Portland State University after a student group invited former Google engineer James Damore to speak on campus about diversity. Damore had the spotlight shine on him after he got fired over a 10-page Google memo he wrote criticizing the company’s internal gender diversity policies and accusing the tech giant of “alienating conservatives.”


National protect the snowflakes day I suppose....go figure.
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Skeeve » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:10 pm

Meanwhile back in the free market....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXb3_s4ix_4

I look forward to folks like Minds.com and others sooner rather than later giving GOOGLE the mother of all bitch-slaps....

Hopefully the idiots in Washington will stay out of it...
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Re: Google is evil thread

Postby Skeeve » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:49 pm

Not technically Google, but part of the same Alphabet soup...
ouTube is being sued for ‘reverse discrimination’
YouTube is being sued by one of its former employees, who claims that the company stopped hiring white and Asian men for technical positions. The Wall Street Journal reports that the reasons behind this decision was efforts to increase diversity in the company's employee pool.

Arne Wilberg, a white man who was a recruiter at YouTube for four years, claims that the company sets diversity quotas for hiring. Wilberg says that he was instructed to toss applications that weren't from women and underrepresented minorities (black and Hispanic), as well as cancel interviews with people who didn't meet these criteria. Others familiar with YouTube's hiring practices were able to corroborate some of these accusations, according to The Wall Street Journal.

Recruiters at YouTube tracked the hiring of underrepresented minorities with a "diversity tracker." The team set yearly goals for hiring, and tracked progress on these documents. Wilberg refused to cooperate with these hiring goals and claims his performance reviews suffered as a result.

It's clear that Alphabet will defend itself against Wilberg's charges. "We have a clear policy to hire candidates based on their merit, not their identity," a Google spokesperson said in a statement to The Wall Street Journal.

BUT
"At the same time, we unapologetically try to find a diverse pool of qualified candidates for open roles, as this helps us hire the best people, improve our culture, and build better products."

Wilberg isn't the first Google employee to sue for "reverse discrimination." James Damore, the now-infamous man who was fired for his anti-diversity memo, and David Gudeman, another Google ex-employee, claimed they were "ostracized, belittled and punished for their heterodox political views, and for the added sin of their birth circumstances of being Caucasians and/or males." In its 2017 diversity report, Caucasians made up 56 percent of Google's workforce in 2017 and the company was 69 percent male, so it seems like white men are doing okay at Google.


Hrm... "56 percent Caucasian, and 69 percent male."
So it doesn't say how many Caucasians were male (bet they have a few women there...if only in HR).
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