More Police Abuse

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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More Police Abuse

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:38 pm

[youtube][/youtube]
A Utah nurse is fighting back after she says she was assaulted and arrested for simply doing her job. Per the Salt Lake Tribune, Alex Wubbels was working at University of Utah Hospital on July 26 when she was asked by a Salt Lake City police detective to draw blood from an unconscious patient who'd been involved in a car crash that killed another person. In recently released video the Washington Post says was taken from police body cameras, Wubbels, the head nurse of the medical center's burn unit, is shown calmly explaining to the officer, ID'd as Detective Jeff Payne, that blood can't be drawn from a patient unless the patient is under arrest or gives consent, or if the police present a warrant. "I'm just trying to do what I'm supposed to do," she says.

Payne continues to press Wubbels on her refusal to allow blood to be drawn, at which point Wubbels' supervisor, who can be heard via speakerphone on Wubbels' phone, tells Payne, "You're making a huge mistake right now because you're threatening a nurse"—prompting Payne to lose patience and place Wubbels under arrest. "Somebody help me! … I've done nothing wrong!" Wubbels screams (the first time her composure breaks) as she's forced outside the hospital. Payne apparently believed he could collect the blood under an "implied consent" law, but Wubbels' lawyer tells the Post that law hasn't been in effect for years; the Supreme Court also ruled against warrantless blood tests in 2016. Wubbels, who wasn't criminally charged and who hasn't ruled out legal action, said at a Thursday presser: "I just feel betrayed, I feel angry ... and I'm still confused."
I will give summary judgement here. $250,000 to nurse.

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Boss Kean » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:45 pm

Clear case of back-sassin'!
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Pyrrho » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:27 pm

Wow. Inexcusable behavior on the part of the cops.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:35 pm

One moment he's talking calmly to her and the next he blows his top.

I think I would sue.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Pyrrho » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:37 pm

She wasn't even talking at that point.

Cop needs to have some consequences. Probably will get a paid 2-week suspension.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by ed » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:45 pm

I'm channelling cool hand. He says sue
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Grammatron » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:08 pm

I hope they throw a whole library at the cop

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:13 pm

ed wrote:I'm channelling cool hand. He says sue
There's no need. I've already rendered summery judgement. Case closed. As is this thread.

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:35 pm

To be as fair as possible to the cop, someone had been killed, probably by this person, and he was going to get away with it. So he might have been emotional. However cops are supposed to be able to handle that sort of thing, right? The job involves seeing people killed from time to time.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Doctor X » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:43 pm

There are judges on-call for things like warrants.

Another cop thinking if he screams loud enough, he will get compliance. This is why police "demand" you let them in.

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:21 am

Doctor X wrote:There are judges on-call for things like warrants.

Another cop thinking if he screams loud enough, he will get compliance. This is why police "demand" you let them in.

--J.D.
And had the nurse done it, it would be inadmissible. Implied consent my ass (that's what he said).

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:58 am

One of the conditions under which she could have done the blood draw was if the guy was under arrest. And the cop placed the nurse under arrest for no apparent reason except he didn't like being told no. Yet he knew he couldn't just arbitrarily arrest the unconscious guy. Seems pretty clear his arrest of the nurse was him abusing his power in a botched attempt to intimidate her. He needs to have his ass bounced from the police force and never be allowed to wear a badge again. Not even as a security guard.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Doctor X » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:19 am

You can arrest an unconscious guy.

Why this guy did not suggests he had absolutely no probable cause. Though, even if arrested, he cannot necessarily order hospital personnel to do his bidding.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:56 am

Doctor X wrote:You can arrest an unconscious guy.
The thought occurred to me, but then I thought that you cannot read an unconscious person his Miranda warning. Or it wouldn't count if even if you did.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by ed » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:54 am

Anaxagoras wrote:To be as fair as possible to the cop, someone had been killed, probably by this person, and he was going to get away with it. So he might have been emotional. However cops are supposed to be able to handle that sort of thing, right? The job involves seeing people killed from time to time.
The patient, William Gray, is a reserve police officer in Rigby, Idaho.

He is a truck driver and was on the road when a pick-up truck fleeing from authorities slammed into him and his truck burst into flames.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/02/police-of ... e-6897466/
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:12 am

ed wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:To be as fair as possible to the cop, someone had been killed, probably by this person, and he was going to get away with it. So he might have been emotional. However cops are supposed to be able to handle that sort of thing, right? The job involves seeing people killed from time to time.
The patient, William Gray, is a reserve police officer in Rigby, Idaho.

He is a truck driver and was on the road when a pick-up truck fleeing from authorities slammed into him and his truck burst into flames.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/02/police-of ... e-6897466/
Oh, I misunderstood. Now it makes even less sense.

Why did he want to take a blood sample?
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:14 am

This is the crash

[youtube][/youtube]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/09/jeff-payn ... lood-draw/
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by ed » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:55 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
ed wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:To be as fair as possible to the cop, someone had been killed, probably by this person, and he was going to get away with it. So he might have been emotional. However cops are supposed to be able to handle that sort of thing, right? The job involves seeing people killed from time to time.
The patient, William Gray, is a reserve police officer in Rigby, Idaho.

He is a truck driver and was on the road when a pick-up truck fleeing from authorities slammed into him and his truck burst into flames.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/02/police-of ... e-6897466/
Oh, I misunderstood. Now it makes even less sense.

Why did he want to take a blood sample?
Protocol? Maybe they do that whenever there is a crash? At least breathalyze.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:34 pm

So the fucking national news fucking says the fucking cops involved are fucking on administrative leave pending a fucking investigation.

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Doctor X » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:37 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:The thought occurred to me, but then I thought that you cannot read an unconscious person his Miranda warning. Or it wouldn't count if even if you did.
The Miranda warning is not the "magic bullet" as it is portrayed on television where, invariably, someone forgets to read it which means the BABY EATING MURDER GOES FREE UNTIL JACK McCOY GETS HIM TO CONFESS IN HIS OFFICE AND THAT HOT ADA DRY HUMPS [Get on with it!--Ed.] and all of that. A quick Google Fu leads to a lot of discussions on "Myths About Miranda" that do not all come from a Youtube Channel from your Uncle who thinks the Jews are behind chemtrails. Relevant to this but:
"Warnings should be given immediately upon arrest."

Only on TV. Unless interrogation commences immediately upon arrest (which is rarely necessary—or wise), it's not yet time to give warnings. The Miranda decision specified warnings that are to be given "prior to any questioning" of a person in custody, and stressed that "a warning at the time of questioning is indispensable." A warning given before the onset of custodial interrogation may not meet this requirement, and potentially deprives the prosecution of volunteered statements or guilty silence, which could be used at trial. (Fletcher v. Weir)

Miranda safeguards "are required not where a person is taken into custody, but rather where a suspect in custody is subjected to interrogation." (Rhode Island v. Innis)

"It is the premise of Miranda that the danger of coercion results from the interaction of custody and official interrogation." (Illinois v. Perkins)

Policemag
the officer does not "read the rights" to the unconscious person. He cannot interrogate an unconscious person. He can, however, arrest him. Where you will see this, for example, is in say a DUI where there is an accident such that the suspected drunk guy is in a hospital. This gets into a massive tangent on what gets reported and made available versus the statutory legal rights. HIPA, for example and to over-simplify, means a nurse cannot just declare "oh, yeah, his BAC level is phyllis!" [Stop that!--Ed.] However, prosecutors will get those results through legal means. Anyways, declaring arrest gives the police and prosecution the ability to get the "legal ball rolling."

Anyways, even if the person is under true literal arrest to the point a police officer sits in the room and the person is cuffed to the side of the bed, the police cannot just order testing or anything else.

Anyways, anyways, I suspect from what was linked the officer was both sloppy and lazy and just use to getting his way as police are taught. As with the demand to enter your home, unless there is a warrant or there is a "credible imminent legal legal words mumbojumbo ongoing crime orphans being raped" the police cannot enter. You let them in? Well, you let them in! Better example: "OPEN YOUR TRUNK!" You do not have to do that. Of course, if the police legitimately suspect something--that trail of blood I warned you about--that falls into the "credible imminent mumbojumbo probable cause thingy." Otherwise, the police can, and will, get a warrant to open your trunk unless, of course, you keep talking and provide said "credible imminent cause probably thing thing."

You are pulled over for running over orphans in an non-running over orphans zone. The police have no further suspicion. They can--and will--"run your license" to find outstanding warrants and your history. Assuming you are otherwise "clean" they have no "mumbo jumbo" for opening your trunk. Maybe you are stupid? So they will tell you to do that just to see. You open your trunk and the 478 kilos of Columbian Grade Geriatric Underwear is found? Well, you opened it.
Again, I suspect this officer was both lazy and sloppy. He got mad because his tactic did not work.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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