More Police Abuse

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by gnome » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:48 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
What exactly is there to investigate?

The investigation could be over in a day or two to be honest. Sooner, really. The facts are plain to see.
I wish I had, well, not a dime perhaps, but a few hundred dollars for each time I thought the facts were plain and turned out not to be.

I wouldn't put any money on this being one of those cases, however. I just chalk it up to the fact that it is by nature an administrative process and slow, not because this situation is difficult, but because the process needs to accommodate more difficult situations.

If this sort of stuff took half a year to work out, I'd still throw a party if it usually led to real consequences. This isn't the part that bothers me.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:47 am

Fired. But from his second job. Apparently he tried to use it as leverage.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles ... second-job
(Reuters) - A Utah police detective accused of assaulting and unlawfully arresting a nurse after she refused to let him take a blood sample from an unconscious patient without a warrant was fired on Tuesday from his second job as a part-time ambulance driver.

Jeff Payne was terminated from his job at Gold Cross Ambulance service over comments he made while taking nurse Alex Wubbels into custody on July 26 which were captured on his body camera, Gold Cross president Mike Moffitt told Reuters.

The comments suggested that Payne would bring transients to University of Utah Hospital, where Wubbels worked, while transporting "good" patients to another facility, Moffitt said.

"Those remarks are just not reflective of our company's philosophy and the service we provide and because of that behavior we felt we had to separate ways," Moffitt said. "His comments reflected poorly on the company and violated several company policies."
That's a whole nother aspect of what he did wrong, which I wasn't aware of. So basically he threatened to place his personal vendetta against this hospital over what is best for each patient.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Doctor X » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:07 pm

Not unexpected.

Another argument for body cameras.

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:28 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
gnome wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:So the fucking national news fucking says the fucking cops involved are fucking on administrative leave pending a fucking investigation.
Shall they fire him before investigating?
Yes.
I want to come back to this. I was glib. Sue me. But you are right. A lesser known fact in the matter is that the cop was in contact with his LT and the LT said to arrest her. That right there changes a lot.

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by xouper » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:19 am

Here's an "interesting" legal opinion, from an (alleged) attorney:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/04/arres ... it-coming/
. . . Despite reams of inaccurate reporting on the incident, Wubbels was likely legally wrong under federal law. The case is a much closer one than it appears.

. . . Never mind the fact that Section 1.3 of the Utah Commercial Driver’s License Handbook states that “If you operate a CMV [commercial vehicle], you shall be deemed to have given your consent to alcohol testing,” creating a potential implied consent justification for the blood draw because the victim was driving a commercial truck. Never mind that the hospital’s policy does not have the force of law, even if the local police department agreed to its terms. Crucially, the policy overlooks a well-established exception to the warrant requirement: Police simply do not need a warrant if exigent circumstances justify an urgent search and seizure of evidence. The imminent loss of blood evidence, which would be useful in a drunk-driving case, qualifies as a potentially exigent circumstance.

. . . There are some more complicated questions at play here. The police are on far shakier ground if they demanded the nurse to draw blood for them, as opposed to the police drawing the blood themselves. But the video suggests that the police wanted to draw blood here.

“If she interferes in any way with me getting the blood drawn, she needs to be arrested,” an officer says early on in the video. And The Washington Post has reported that Payne is a trained police phlebotomist, meaning that he is sent to hospitals to collect blood from patients and check for illicit substances.
In no way am I defending what Payne did. I am not qualified to assess the merits of this legal analysis.

I too was outraged by what I saw in the videos.

I would simply point out, sometimes the media does not report all the facts correctly and it is sometimes too easy to jump to erroneous conclusions.

Example: Was the nurse refusing to draw the blood or was she refusing to let the officer draw the blood? Sometimes details matter.

Example: Why did they need the patient's blood in the first place? I didn't see where that was explained. Apparently he was a victim, not a suspect, so on what grounds can they take his blood anyway?

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:50 am

This seems to be a good discussion of the relevant legal issues with implied consent:

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentar ... mplicated/
According to the police reports connected with the incident, the detective and his supervisor thought they had consent relying on Utah’s “implied consent” law found at Utah Code § 41-6a-520.
Just last year, the U.S. Supreme Court favorably discussed such implied consent laws. In Birchfield v. North Dakota, the court struck down a North Dakota implied consent law – but only on the narrow ground that North Dakota had provided a criminal penalty for those who refused to consent to a blood draw. The court noted that its previous decisions had “referred approvingly to the general concept of implied-consent laws that impose civil penalties and evidentiary consequences on motorists who refuse to comply” and “nothing we say here should be read to cast doubt on them.” Utah’s implied consent law only imposes civil penalties (such as suspension of driver’s license) and thus is constitutional.

But while Utah’s law is constitutional, it turns out not to have permitted this specific blood draw. As written, Utah’s law only permits an officer to conduct such a test where he has reasonable grounds to believe that a person from whom blood is to be taken was driving “while in violation of” the laws regarding driving under the influence of alcohol or other substances. In this case, the detective specifically lacked any such grounds, because the draw was being taken to show the opposite – that the driver was not under the influence. Utah’s implied consent law did not authorize this particular blood draw under these particular circumstances.
And if you want to read the actual law:

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title41/Chapt ... 0118000101
(b) A test or tests authorized under this Subsection (1) must be administered at the direction of a peace officer having grounds to believe that person to have been operating or in actual physical control of a motor vehicle while in violation of any provision under Subsections (1)(a)(i) through (iii).
If we take his claim at face value, he was trying to prove that the guy was innocent. Which is unnecessary. There were no reasonable grounds to suspect he had broken the law. The blood test could not help him, it could only hurt him. Best case scenario for him is that it proves that he wasn't under the influence. But there was never any evidence to suggest otherwise. So no upside, only a possible downside. plus he is being treated for severe burns. From a medical standpoint other than the legal standpoint, there is no real upside either. Even though it's just a small amount of blood, it can't really be helpful for someone trying to recover from an injury like that to lose any more blood than necessary.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:11 am

Took a while but the detective has been fired and his watch commander demoted. Not sure if she decided to sue or not.

Utah Officer Fired For Arrest of Nurse, Recorded On Video
The Salt Lake City Police Department has fired the police detective who was video recorded aggressively hand-cuffing a hospital nurse who refused to allow him to draw blood from an unconscious patient in July.

The video, recorded by a police body camera, of the rough arrest of University Hospital nurse Alex Wubbels went viral, drawing widespread condemnation and renewing the national debate over the appropriate use of force by the police.

Salt Lake Police Chief Mike Brown relieved Detective Jeff Payne of his duties and disciplined his watch commander, Lt. James Tracey, by demoting him to the rank of officer.

The action comes after an internal affairs report released Sept. 13, which found that both officers were in violation of department policy. In a highly detailed "Notice of Decision" letter, Brown said the two officers failed in their requirement to treat all citizens "equally with courtesy, consideration and dignity."

"You demonstrated extremely poor professional judgment (especially for an officer with 27 years of experience), which calls into question your ability to effectively serve the public and the department," Brown wrote.
Payne and Tracey have five days to appeal Chief Brown's action.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:15 am

The police officer's union is not happy though:

Police union blasts handling of Utah nurse arrest probe
SALT LAKE CITY — Two officers under investigation in the rough arrest of a nurse have been unfairly made into pariahs after body-camera footage got widespread attention online, a Utah police union said Monday.

The Salt Lake Police Association said in a letter to the mayor and police chief that it is “extremely concerned and dismayed” about handling that has “corrupted” the high-profile investigation, The Deseret News reported.

“The premature release of body cam footage is particularly demoralizing as it allows the public who have not trained as police officers to make what often amounts to biased and ill-informed judgments of the police,” association president Stephen Hartney said in a letter.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by sparks » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:23 pm

Well, it's a known fact that you've got to watch out for nurses with blood pressure cuffs. They're worse than black kids with Skittles fer chrissakes!
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Doctor X » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:42 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:The police officer's union is not happy though:
Now there is a surprise. . . .

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by gnome » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:43 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:The police officer's union is not happy though:

Police union blasts handling of Utah nurse arrest probe
SALT LAKE CITY — Two officers under investigation in the rough arrest of a nurse have been unfairly made into pariahs after body-camera footage got widespread attention online, a Utah police union said Monday.

The Salt Lake Police Association said in a letter to the mayor and police chief that it is “extremely concerned and dismayed” about handling that has “corrupted” the high-profile investigation, The Deseret News reported.

“The premature release of body cam footage is particularly demoralizing as it allows the public who have not trained as police officers to make what often amounts to biased and ill-informed judgments of the police,” association president Stephen Hartney said in a letter.
By all means, Salt Lake Police Association, tell us how the body cam footage was misunderstood.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Doctor X » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 pm

"It was taken out of context!"

When you slow it down, you clearly see her reaching for a tactical nuclear weapon. Our officer acted as trained to protect his safety, her safety, and, more importantly, the safety of The Children.

Why do you oppose the Safety of The Children, gnome?

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:05 am

She has settled for half a mil. Seems like she let them off relatively easy given the circumstances, but you could buy a pretty nice house for that I guess.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/10/31/u ... ettlement/
University Hospital nurse Alex Wubbels has agreed to a $500,000 payment to settle a dispute over her arrest by a Salt Lake City police officer after she barred him from drawing blood from an unconscious patient, her attorney said Tuesday.

Attorney Karra Porter said at a news conference that the agreement with Salt Lake City and the University of Utah covers all parties and takes the possibility of legal action off the table. “There will be no lawsuit,” she said.
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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Doctor X » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:09 am

Probably the fact he is fired and the city did not in anyway contest this moved her to settle for a reasonable figure.

Had the city acted like the police union and tried to argue that, somehow, in some way, the officer acted reasonably, that would have been the floor.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: More Police Abuse

Post by Witness » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:04 am

In a first, FBI to begin collecting national data on police use of force

The FBI is set to begin collecting data that will track use-of-force incidents reported by law enforcement, but experts say the collection could prove problematic and the data could provide an incomplete picture of the scale of the incidents across the country.

The National Use-of-Force Data Collection will track use-of-force incidents by police that result in death or serious bodily injury, and also incidents in which an officer fired a gun at a person, the FBI announced Wednesday. Local, state, tribal, and federal jurisdictions can begin submitting data to the FBI via a web application on Jan. 1, 2019. Once the information is collected, it will be released at least twice a year.

Law enforcement agencies across the country have come under fire for high-profile incidents of deaths and injuries by police officers. No statistics have been available to track the incidents on a national scale, though some agencies collect their own data at the state and local level.

The FBI says the data collection, a first-of-its kind effort, will allow the law enforcement community to identify areas of improvement when it comes to training and tactics. Members of a use-of-force data collection task force convened by the FBI also say they hope the data will increase transparency and in turn strengthen trust between the community and law enforcement.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-to-beg ... orce-data/

Well, they "hope"…