Massacre in Las Vegas

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Grammatron » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:33 pm

Doctor X wrote:
asthmatic camel wrote:I think most big cities have gang problems, Doc;
I "miswrote." I should have been more clear to specify to the degree that Chicago or Los Angeles has.

I blame sparks.

--J.D.
Los Angeles has addressed most issues related to that, you would be more correct by saying Baltimore instead.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Doctor X » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:46 pm

Again, much, much small country that is an island, and you have many other ways for simple murder and gang violence.

It is like claiming we are so much better because no one gets killed by cricket bats here.

You will never find a more peaceful place than a police state provided you do not care about having other personal freedoms. And, by an large, many do. This is why you get the "if you're not a criminal, if you have nothing to hide, why do you care if they observe you, search you, question you?" arguments.

Of course, people do not think they will be unreasonably searched, or profiled.

Now I am not an absolutist: I do not feel their should be no regulations. I do not own guns nor do I intend to in the future. I will not bore you with my rationale. I know enough who believe very strongly in practical self-defense who conceal carry and trained with fire arms. However, I have also had the misfortune to encounter dumbasses who own and are irresponsible. Allowing the former while stopping the later is the problem.

The London victims run down and slashed, including a police officer, should have had the opportunity to responsibly have the ability to defend themselves as best as they could rather being sheep to the comfortable delusion of safety. Notice I write "responsible."

--J.D.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Doctor X » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:47 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Doctor X wrote:
asthmatic camel wrote:I think most big cities have gang problems, Doc;
I "miswrote." I should have been more clear to specify to the degree that Chicago or Los Angeles has.

I blame sparks.
Los Angeles has addressed most issues related to that, you would be more correct by saying Baltimore instead.
I think you over-emphasize the calming effect of two football teams.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Grammatron » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Doctor X wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Doctor X wrote:
asthmatic camel wrote:I think most big cities have gang problems, Doc;
I "miswrote." I should have been more clear to specify to the degree that Chicago or Los Angeles has.

I blame sparks.
Los Angeles has addressed most issues related to that, you would be more correct by saying Baltimore instead.
I think you over-emphasize the calming effect of two football teams.

--J.D.
The Chargers have disturbed the delicate balance.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Doctor X » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:08 pm

Why you need more guns.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Mentat » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:25 pm

Western Europe is also a different place than the US. Remember AC, in the US the primary job of the law enforcement is to protect the state, not you. If you want protection from bad actors, then it's ultimately up to you to do so. Hence why firearms are so ingrained in our culture and people get touchy when anybody even hints at regulation or gun control; the ability to bear arms is your primary line of defense here.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by xouper » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:00 pm

Mentat wrote:Western Europe is also a different place than the US. Remember AC, in the US the primary job of the law enforcement is to protect the state, not you. If you want protection from bad actors, then it's ultimately up to you to do so. Hence why firearms are so ingrained in our culture and people get touchy when anybody even hints at regulation or gun control; the ability to bear arms is your primary line of defense here.
Puerto Rico is a good example of that. In the wake of the hurricane disaster, the police are not able to be everywhere and many people are on their own to protect themselves.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Mentat » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:49 pm

It's becoming increasingly clear to the left that they need to arm themselves for protection as well. Would Heyer still be alive if somebody shot the nazi that killed her? We don't know, but even a fighting chance at survival is better than being helpless prey to violent extremists. That is something Americans value, and taking that away is a direct infringement on those values.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:58 pm

Reading everything. Thinking about this.

This guy was going to kill lots. No question that was his goal.

Take away guns he would have used some other method.

There is no accounting for crazy.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:05 pm

Mentat wrote:It's becoming increasingly clear to the left that they need to arm themselves for protection as well. ...
Nice thought, but I'm not seeing any Democrats I know thinking in that direction. Nor politicians nor even show biz types.

Admittedly I don't know any current campus radicals.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Grammatron » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:13 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Mentat wrote:It's becoming increasingly clear to the left that they need to arm themselves for protection as well. ...
Nice thought, but I'm not seeing any Democrats I know thinking in that direction. Nor politicians nor even show biz types.

Admittedly I don't know any current campus radicals.
People on the left =/= Democrats though

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Mentat » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:17 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Mentat wrote:It's becoming increasingly clear to the left that they need to arm themselves for protection as well. ...
Nice thought, but I'm not seeing any Democrats I know thinking in that direction. Nor politicians nor even show biz types.

Admittedly I don't know any current campus radicals.
Among polling moderates, it has grown over the past 20 years. But polls for the far left hasn't really shown a whole lot of change. For instance, Pink Pistols tripled membership in the past year alone in response to the Pulse Nightclub shooting.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:46 pm

you guys are talking about guns because that's what he used.

lacking guns, he would have used a fertilizer bomb and probably killed more.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by WildCat » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:47 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:BTW, Wildcat. That is approximately the figure I had when I took pistol training.

I am now down to a svelte 260# and counting. :coolspecs:
Nice!
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Grammatron » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:14 pm

Rob Lister wrote:you guys are talking about guns because that's what he used.

lacking guns, he would have used a fertilizer bomb and probably killed more.
He also was a pilot with a plane and money to rent a larger plane. This could have been so much worse.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by WildCat » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:16 pm

asthmatic camel wrote:I think most big cities have gang problems, Doc; Manchester certainly does. Mrs. C.'s nephew was stabbed and nearly killed in a gang related revenge attack a couple of years ago.
Not nearly the same scale.
Scotland Yard has just completed the task of counting how many street gangs there are in London. The results are staggering: there are more than 170, some of them up to 100-strong.
If every single one of them had 100 members that would be 17,000 gang members in a city of 8.8 million.

In Chicago, which is less than 1/3 the size at 2.7 million population, the Gangster Disciples alone have over 50,000 members. The Latin Kings have over 40,000. The Conservative Vice Lords more than 15,000. The Black Disciples more than 6,000. Traveling Vice Lords over 3,000. And a whole bunch of others in the 500-2,000 member range who make up for in violence what they lack in numbers. MS-13, Crips, and Bloods can't even get a foothold in Chicago because the local gangs will eat them alive.

And these aren't just youth gangs that disband as the members get older, they're in it for life and multiple generations of a family will be in the same gang and some have been around since the 1950s.

And that is why the USA has so much gun violence, not the gun laws. If the gang culture was as entrenched in the UK as it is here there would be just as many shootings, they would find a way to smuggle in guns from eastern Europe, the middle east, and North Africa along with the drugs they sell. It's culture, not guns.

eta: in many cities the police can say "we're the biggest gang in town". In Chicago the police wouldn't even be in the top 3.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Fid » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:43 am

"lacking guns, he would have used a fertilizer bomb and probably killed more."

Indeed, back in the 70's the owner of the plant nursery I worked at demonstrated how explosive that was. It involved an pint glass jar and fertilizer . BOOM seriously BOOM .The whole idea was to keep this shit dry and safe.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by WildCat » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:00 am

Doctor X wrote:Why you need more guns.

--J.D.
Or a nice bath.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by asthmatic camel » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:59 am

Doctor X wrote:Again, much, much small country that is an island, and you have many other ways for simple murder and gang violence.

It is like claiming we are so much better because no one gets killed by cricket bats here.

You will never find a more peaceful place than a police state provided you do not care about having other personal freedoms. And, by an large, many do. This is why you get the "if you're not a criminal, if you have nothing to hide, why do you care if they observe you, search you, question you?" arguments.

Of course, people do not think they will be unreasonably searched, or profiled.

Now I am not an absolutist: I do not feel their should be no regulations. I do not own guns nor do I intend to in the future. I will not bore you with my rationale. I know enough who believe very strongly in practical self-defense who conceal carry and trained with fire arms. However, I have also had the misfortune to encounter dumbasses who own and are irresponsible. Allowing the former while stopping the later is the problem.

The London victims run down and slashed, including a police officer, should have had the opportunity to responsibly have the ability to defend themselves as best as they could rather being sheep to the comfortable delusion of safety. Notice I write "responsible."

--J.D.
With the utmost respect and humbility, how much use do you think firearms would have been against the London Bridge and Manchester Arena attacks?

None at all.

That's how much.

My argument is that arming assholes is idiotic.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by ed » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:02 am

With the utmost respect and humbility, how much use do you think firearms would have been against the London Bridge ... attacks?
why "none"?
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