Massacre in Las Vegas

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Mentat » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:36 pm

The US is one of the safest places to live in the world as long as you avoid the inner cities, outer cities, wild untamed reserves, rural bumpkin land, and suburban sprawl.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by ed » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:50 pm

Mentat wrote:, rural bumpkin land.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by xouper » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:54 pm

asthmatic camel wrote:. . . the cold, hard numbers are on my side.
Some are and some aren't.

However, some things are more important than the numbers. Such as civil liberties.

As always, Your Mileage May VaryTM. :wink:

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by WildCat » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:48 pm

Numbers:

Murder
USA 5.0/100,000
England and Wales 1.1/100,000
Scotland 1.6/100,000

Assault (defined as "resulted in serious bodily injury")
USA 262/100,000
England and Wales 730/100,000
Scotland 1,487/100,000

So for every extra murder in the USA we have 120 fewer serious assaults compared to England and Wales, and 360 fewer serious assaults as compared to Scotland.

Which place is more dangerous really?
Last edited by WildCat on Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Doctor X » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:10 am

But the numbers were not really on your side, were they, as others have shown?

You are again comparing two different countries of vastly different sizes, cultures, and make-up. Now, you can certainly turn that around against an argument that the UK should have similar gun laws and rights as the US.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:36 pm

Soros Fund Management LLC's bought puts on MGM per 13F filing
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3593576/posts

Synopsis: Allegedly Soros shorted MGM big time just before the massacre.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by gnome » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:38 pm

If George Soros was in on it, the NRA and the "gun lobby" should send him a thank-you note. It's good for business.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:50 pm

gnome wrote:If George Soros was in on it, the NRA and the "gun lobby" should send him a thank-you note. It's good for business.
MGM was losing money anyway. :BigGrin3:
Last edited by Abdul Alhazred on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:08 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Soros Fund Management LLC's bought puts on MGM per 13F filing
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3593576/posts

Synopsis: Allegedly Soros shorted MGM big time just before the massacre.
Assuming all that information is correct, I wouldn't call that position "big time" for them. Hardly the biggest bet they made in whatever time period that covers. And there seem to be dozens of other trades they made, many of them for much larger sums of money.

Soros is a bogeyman to the psychocons, just as the Koch brothers are bogeymen to the loony left.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:19 pm

It does raise the question as to the Hotel's legal culpability here. Ordinarily I'd assign them none but other sources say that because the guy was a 'high roller' he was allowed to use alternate entrances and elevators that bypassed the hotel's security.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Grammatron » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:38 pm

Rob Lister wrote:It does raise the question as to the Hotel's legal culpability here. Ordinarily I'd assign them none but other sources say that because the guy was a 'high roller' he was allowed to use alternate entrances and elevators that bypassed the hotel's security.
It's not like hotels have random searches of luggage. Las Vegas is a convention town and people bring in all kinds of equipment, nothing would stand out.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:53 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:It does raise the question as to the Hotel's legal culpability here. Ordinarily I'd assign them none but other sources say that because the guy was a 'high roller' he was allowed to use alternate entrances and elevators that bypassed the hotel's security.
It's not like hotels have random searches of luggage. Las Vegas is a convention town and people bring in all kinds of equipment, nothing would stand out.
Is that an opinion I smell there? They do have security according to accounts I've read.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by gnome » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:58 pm

Whether security procedures are adequate is one question.
Whether they were followed is another.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Grammatron » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:00 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:It does raise the question as to the Hotel's legal culpability here. Ordinarily I'd assign them none but other sources say that because the guy was a 'high roller' he was allowed to use alternate entrances and elevators that bypassed the hotel's security.
It's not like hotels have random searches of luggage. Las Vegas is a convention town and people bring in all kinds of equipment, nothing would stand out.
Is that an opinion I smell there? They do have security according to accounts I've read.
Sure they have security and I doubt that security would let a guy walk around with several AR-15's slung over his shoulder. But if everything's in a bag, what exactly will that security do? I've been to a few industry conventions and we brought tons of stuff in boxes and bags into rooms and suites. No one ever asked to take a look inside.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:03 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:It does raise the question as to the Hotel's legal culpability here. Ordinarily I'd assign them none but other sources say that because the guy was a 'high roller' he was allowed to use alternate entrances and elevators that bypassed the hotel's security.
It's not like hotels have random searches of luggage. Las Vegas is a convention town and people bring in all kinds of equipment, nothing would stand out.
Is that an opinion I smell there? They do have security according to accounts I've read.
Sure they have security and I doubt that security would let a guy walk around with several AR-15's slung over his shoulder. But if everything's in a bag, what exactly will that security do? I've been to a few industry conventions and we brought tons of stuff in boxes and bags into rooms and suites. No one ever asked to take a look inside.
Dude! I don't fucking know. I'm just sayin' there's legal gossip here and we should harp on it. I don't think that's asking too much.

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by ed » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:41 pm

Rob Lister wrote:It does raise the question as to the Hotel's legal culpability here. Ordinarily I'd assign them none but other sources say that because the guy was a 'high roller' he was allowed to use alternate entrances and elevators that bypassed the hotel's security.
You can get special treatment from TSA too. I suspect that it might provide an opening for an evilly minded person.
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:40 am

Since other explanations seem to be lacking, an article in Politico speculates that he did it simply for the notoriety.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... -it-215699
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:10 pm

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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by gnome » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:22 pm

Modulo her usual bullshit :D , the one point that I think she has right is the money laundering. That one sticks out because it doesn't really require supposing (without evidence) the existence of an accomplice or other shooter.

I figure the other questions may have multiple possible answers. For example, if the only reason someone would have gloves would be because someone planted the gloves on them, why would that fool anyone in the first place?

I'm not at all convinced he was certain the day would end in his death, even if he considered it an acceptable possibility. Also, a few seconds of googling suggests that wearing gloves when practice shooting is a thing for some people, and it just may have been his habit.

The rest of her comments is a really convoluted attempt to suggest that a more stereotypical terrorist was actually behind it all along.
This reminds me of the various conspiracy theories suggesting that Islamic terrorists were involved in the Oklahoma City bombing.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Massacre in Las Vegas

Post by WildCat » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:57 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Ann Coulter rips the lid off ...

http://www.vdare.com/articles/ann-coult ... ming-apart
"Why was Paddock wearing gloves if he was about to commit suicide?"

Because a rifle gets really, really fucking hot when you fire it a lot. Even hotter when you bump fire it. In 30 seconds even the handguard will be too hot to touch.
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