Back Sassin' Harassin'

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Doctor X » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:05 am

Again, her wishing a woman who disagreed with her would get raped and have her genitals destroyed invalidates her as a feminist.

Franken is a better feminist.

Hell, Bill Clinton is better. He did not, as far as I know, light the cigar.

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby gnome » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:06 pm

In the idea of "Believe the Victim" a balance is needing to be carved out. I've dived into the middle of that lately in a lot of conversations online.

The good part of it: I agree we should presume the sincerity of an accusation as much as we presume the innocence of the accused. It's the same thing, really, because we are otherwise presuming the accuser to have done wrong. It's a tough line to walk but it's doable.

The bad part of it: It is easy to take this to the point of advocating sanctions on the accused for the accusation alone. I don't agree with this, in fact I am quite adamant about it, and I don't agree it is necessary in order to treat the accuser fairly. Even in the much-discussed "Court of public opinion" before I make up my own mind I try to look for more than just a claim, even if I'm prepared to hold an opinion that falls short of "beyond a reasonable doubt".

I think if there is convincing information available beyond the accusation, there's reason to draw a personal conclusion. I may never know whether they are legally guilty or actually did it. But I do need to decide whether to vote for them, give them money, etc.
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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:13 am

gnome wrote:I agree we should presume the sincerity of an accusation ...


Should we presume the sincerity of an accusation without evidence?

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby gnome » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:21 am

Sincerity, yes, accuracy, not necessarily.

I'm just talking about not leading with the assumption that they're lying. Start with the idea that they're acting in good faith until they show otherwise. Really, the same courtesy I would afford the accused--that their statements are an honest recollection of the event as they perceived it. Nobody's a liar until real information is gathered.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:26 am

gnome wrote:Sincerity, yes, accuracy, not necessarily.

I'm just talking about not leading with the assumption that they're lying.


Assumption they are lying? How about skepticism?

Start with the idea that they're acting in good faith until they show otherwise.


How about until they show evidence?

Anyone can say anything about anybody.

Where's the beef.

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby gnome » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:29 am

Evidence is for determining truth, not motive. Strike that--evidence can inform motive at that.

But what would we do besides presume they are making a legitimate complaint from their point of view, before you investigate?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:15 am

gnome wrote:Evidence is for determining truth, not motive. Strike that--evidence can inform motive at that.


evidence can inform motive at that?

Are you on drugs. I'm not being critical. I want some.

How about the accuser bring some fucking evidence before everybody just 'presumes' the accused is guilty?

You okay with that?

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby gnome » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:26 am

You're obviously not reading carefully. I specifically disclaimed presuming guilt.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:55 am

How's that working?

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Doctor X » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:15 am

Donovan McVomitNabb and Some Guy No One Gives a Shit about.

Meanwhile, "Skipper," the head of ESPN, reportedly was dumped for the same reason. The Japanese Official Story is, after signing a multi-year contract, John Skipper suddenly was let go for "substance abuse." That does not happen, and the rumors have swirled that he shared in the same predations his anchormen and reporters did.

ESPN just lives up to the negative stereotype.

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby RCC: Act II » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:04 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
gnome wrote:Evidence is for determining truth, not motive. Strike that--evidence can inform motive at that.


evidence can inform motive at that?



I thought you were into skepticism? The only way to determine motive is evidence of some sort.

The account of any person claiming a crime has been committed is evidence. Standing alone it is not proof, and isn't even particularly strong evidence. It is, however, evidence. How it relates to the various legal standards is another question that can only be answered by further investigation.

This is one way of stating what gnome is getting at about taking the accusation seriously.

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Rob Lister » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:07 pm

Dude, I just couldn't parse it.

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby RCC: Act II » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:11 pm

The above assumes the accusation contains an allegation of fact that is consistent with a crime...

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby RCC: Act II » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:12 pm

Rob Lister wrote:Dude, I just couldn't parse it.


A personal account is evidence. Go from there.

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby ed » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:48 pm

gnome wrote:In the idea of "Believe the Victim" a balance is needing to be carved out.


If a person is wrongly accused that person is a victim. Does that person also immediately get the benefit of the doubt?

Seems to me that this is, like so much of the SJW canon, a one way street defined by racism and sexual politics. What they mean to say is believe protected classes at the expense of all else.

eta: that is the basis of despotic rule from the time of absolute monarchs thru and past the Fuhrer Princip. It is exactly what european humanism arose in reaction to.
Last edited by ed on Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby RCC: Act II » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:56 pm

ed wrote:
gnome wrote:In the idea of "Believe the Victim" a balance is needing to be carved out.


If a person is wrongly accused that person is a victim. Does that person also immediately get the benefit of the doubt?

Seems to me that this is, like so much of the SJW canon, a one way street defined by racism and sexual politics. What they mean to say is believe protected classes at the expense of all else.


A denial is also testimonial evidence. That is all this is, treating an accusation as testimonial evidence without discounting it because of subject matter or the gender of the accuser.

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:45 pm

French actress Deneuve slams post-Weinsten witch-hunt as attack on sexual freedom
The Local (France)

A collective of 100 prominent French women including famed actress Catherine Deneuve have denounced the "puritanism" that followed in the wake of allegations against Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein, declaring that men should be "free to hit on" women. ...


Analysis: Sexual freedom is free the same way an unregulated free market is free. :lmao:
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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Anaxagoras » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:47 am

Ally Sheedy seems to be accusing James Franco and Christian Slater of something. What exactly it is, isn't clear.

https://www.thecut.com/2018/01/james-fr ... psrc=nymag

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"Never ask me"? But you brought it up. :?

Leading up to the show this evening, so many women in Hollywood shared stories of sexual harassment and abuse in the industry, and it seems like Sheedy might, unfortunately, have one more. She didn’t directly accuse Franco and Slater of anything, but something’s up. We’ve reached out to a rep for Sheedy to ask for clarification and will update this post if we hear back. In the meantime, consider the fact that Franco directed Sheedy in an Off Broadway production of The Long Shrift in 2014.

Update, Monday 9 a.m.: I added a screenshot of Sheedy’s tweets about Franco and Slater, as she deleted them overnight.


She later deleted it, but too late.
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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Doctor X » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:56 am

There have been a lot of accusation concerning Franco.

Slater? I preferred the Non-Japanese Original Jack.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.

Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho

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Re: Back Sassin' Harassin'

Postby Pyrrho » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:53 am

Saw a headline about Weinstein having been attacked at a restaurant. Have to run, no time to find it.
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