#MeToo (generic)....

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: #MeToo (generic)....

Postby Skeeve » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:40 pm

From the old world: French women’s rights activists denounce Deneuve’s letter

PARIS — An open letter signed by movie star Catherine Deneuve and dozens of other French women about men being unfairly targeted by sexual misconduct allegations has prompted a backlash in the French press and on social media.

In the letter, published in Le Monde newspaper, Deneuve and about 100 actresses, writers, scholars and artists argued that the “legitimate protest against sexual violence” stemming from the Harvey Weinstein scandal has gone too far and threatens hard-won sexual freedoms. They said men should be free to hit on women and advocated against “puritanism.


:doglaugh:

When I read shit like this I realize we don't have it so bad in the USA...
at least, not yet.
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Re: #MeToo (generic)....

Postby Skeeve » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:53 pm

What the Bishop Bell Case Reveals about Our #MeToo Moment
An uncomfortable truth is that false accusations can and do happen.
...
Any reasonable person not engaged in mob justice should be able to imagine a number of reasons that someone might falsely make an accusation against someone else. These range from the accidental (false or mistaken identification) to the deliberate (avarice, revenge). It is no more the case that everybody who makes an allegation against somebody else must be telling the truth than it is that they must be lying. A small but important case from the United Kingdom seems capable of shedding some caution on the furor occurring everywhere.

It relates to the former Bishop of Chichester, George Bell, a much-admired clergyman who died in 1958. Two years ago — in 2015 — an allegation of child abuse by the bishop was made public. The accuser (who remains anonymous) alleged that Bell repeatedly abused her more than six decades ago. No other similar charges have been made.

What was remarkable was not just the allegation, but the way in which it was reported. In Britain, the story was splashed across many of the national and local newspapers and prominently relayed on the BBC. It was given fuel by the Sussex Police, who (ever-keen on pursuing people who died decades ago)...
:lmao:
... issued a statement stating the charges and editorializing that “the information obtained from our enquiries would have justified, had he still been alive, Bishop Bell’s arrest and interview under caution, on suspicion of sexual offences.”
...
And there the whole thing might have lain had a couple of journalists not reared up in horror at this one-sided trial of the dead. Peter Hitchens of the Mail on Sunday led the charge, along with Charles Moore (of the Telegraph and Spectator) as well as a few others. Thanks to their efforts, the tables slowly began to turn. Last year the police grudgingly apologized to the bishop’s one surviving niece.
...
As Hitchens’s headline put it, “If a saintly man can be branded a sex abuser, none of us is safe.”

So it took two (or more) journalists a good two years ... to clear a dead man.

Here is a link to Hitchens blog/article.
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ ... -safe.html
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Re: #MeToo (generic)....

Postby RCC: Act II » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:53 pm

There is always a margin of error. If the system ran on absolute certainty, you might as well not have a system.

And this:

"“If a saintly man can be branded a sex abuser, none of us is safe."

Is just a horrifying position given the history of covering up sex abuse by clergy that was enabled by the absurd idea that clergymen are per se saintly.

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Re: #MeToo (generic)....

Postby ed » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:00 pm

Facing your accuser and due process would help.
- new minimalist ethos -

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Re: #MeToo (generic)....

Postby Skeeve » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:14 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:There is always a margin of error. If the system ran on absolute certainty, you might as well not have a system.

And this:

"“If a saintly man can be branded a sex abuser, none of us is safe."

Is just a horrifying position given the history of covering up sex abuse by clergy that was enabled by the absurd idea that clergymen are per se saintly.
So if a some of them do it, they all must be doing it?
If a saintly man can be branded a sex abuser, none of us is safe
If we won’t fight injustice wherever we see it, then we are not safe from suffering injustice ourselves. If a man’s reputation can be destroyed in an afternoon by a secret kangaroo court, then we too can one day be propelled into a pit of everlasting shame by the same process.
If it can happen to anyone, it can happen to you.
...
Accusations of long-ago sexual crime have become a sort of industry in this country. People are so horrified by them that they almost always believe them.
Because the crime is so foul, we stop thinking.
...
To their shame, police and prosecutors use our horror to get easy convictions, when they must know that their cases are weak. The less actual evidence they have, the more they stress the disgusting nature of the alleged crime. And they forget to remind us that it is alleged, not proved.
...
Equally shamefully, judges do not stop these trials and juries leave their brains at the door. They convict not because they are sure the case has been proved beyond reasonable doubt, but because they are angry and revolted.
He goes on about the way the Church of England essentially hung this guy out to dry and how he and others worked to get the case re-opened.
...
Fortunately, I found allies who felt the same. At first slowly and then with gathering strength and confidence, we assembled the evidence which showed that grave wrong had been done. The Church of England, whose senior figures are astonishingly unimpressive and tricky, tried to smear us with false claims that we had attacked the complainant. But they failed, and at last grudgingly agreed to review the case.

When the review told them that they had run an incompetent, miserable kangaroo court and that they had condemned a great man on evidence too weak to hang a hamster, they sat sulkily on that report for nearly ten weeks, until they were jeered into releasing it.
Even then, when it came out on Friday, a Church which supposedly believes in penitence was still wriggling like a basket of embarrassed eels. The distinguished and impartial lawyer who conducted the review, Lord Carlile QC, made it quite plain that no court would have found George Bell guilty on the evidence (indeed, the Crown Prosecution Service would not even have brought it to court).
That's telling considering, parts of the CPS are some of the same folks who apparently fucked up so royally n earlier posts....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... udent.html
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -7hdjtlv9z
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4313763/w ... is-jailed/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12 ... es-review/
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Re: #MeToo (generic)....

Postby gnome » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:34 pm

Skeeve wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:There is always a margin of error. If the system ran on absolute certainty, you might as well not have a system.

And this:

"“If a saintly man can be branded a sex abuser, none of us is safe."

Is just a horrifying position given the history of covering up sex abuse by clergy that was enabled by the absurd idea that clergymen are per se saintly.
So if a some of them do it, they all must be doing it?


Certainly not, just that it is an unsupportable error to imagine that someone's position in the clergy should be presented as a reason for less suspicion than someone in a different profession. Being officially "holy" does not seem to make it any less likely that someone has done wrong.
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Re: #MeToo (generic)....

Postby Doctor X » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:23 am

Taking a break from being Supreme Being Goddess, omniscient, omnipotent, and responsible for all ills. Sorry I have failed the world so far on gender equality. Maybe stop trying? Will be back later. (Next incarnation maybe.)
— Margaret E. Atwood (@MargaretAtwood) January 14, 2018


Of the criticism for adding her name to the letter [In support of due process for a university professor accused of sexual harassment.--Ed.], Ms Atwood wrote: "And now, it seems, I am conducting a War on Women,like the misogynistic, rape-enabling Bad Feminist that I am".

She added: "In times of extremes, extremists win. Their ideology becomes a religion, anyone who doesn't puppet their views is seen as an apostate, a heretic or a traitor, and moderates in the middle are annihilated."

Ms Atwood also offers misgivings about the movement going too far, warning of the dangers of "vigilante justice", which she says "begins as a response to a lack of justice".

Bugger'd by Colonists


Interesting read. The Colonists present two cases of criticism against Atwood. The first is shaming. The second is Well Poisoning.

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Re: #MeToo (generic)....

Postby Skeeve » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:19 pm

Enough with the #MeToo Bullshit

I’ve kept silent over the scalp fest that is the #MeToo debacle for a good bit of time. One reason is I get my perspective will largely be ignored by a good swath of people who will say “Oh, look at the cishet white male shitlord” and move on. We’re in a society where your patents of oppression* matter more than rational thought.
...
Now things have taken a different turn and the virus has infested the legal profession. People who should know better, who swore an oath to uphold the law, are jumping on the bandwagon of “OMG Someone Did Something BURN THE HERETIC!”

This must end now. Speaking from the legal perspective, the #MeToo movement is wrongheaded, completely dishonest, and has backfired in ways its woke disciples couldn’t have expected.


Lots more, written by a lawyer (or so he claims) and makes some points mentioned before.
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Re: #MeToo (generic)....

Postby Skeeve » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:02 am

The Humiliation of Aziz Ansari

Allegations against the comedian are proof that women are angry, temporarily powerful—and very, very dangerous.
...
Was Grace frozen, terrified, stuck? No. She tells us that she wanted something from Ansari and that she was trying to figure out how to get it. She wanted affection, kindness, attention. Perhaps she hoped to maybe even become the famous man’s girlfriend. He wasn’t interested. What she felt afterward—rejected yet another time, by yet another man—was regret. And what she and the writer who told her story created was 3,000 words of revenge porn. The clinical detail in which the story is told is intended not to validate her account as much as it is to hurt and humiliate Ansari. Together, the two women may have destroyed Ansari’s career, which is now the punishment for every kind of male sexual misconduct, from the grotesque to the disappointing.

And that one was written by a woman...go figure.
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Re: #MeToo (generic)....

Postby gnome » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:18 am

Sure, if they want to put words and motives upon Grace instead of addressing her actual objections, what they made up is far easier to criticize.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2


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