Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:59 pm

ed wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
ed wrote: Wow. This is isn't some jamoke who is talking about knocking over a liquor store, this is a guy who lead, or had a leading role in a number of politically sensitive investigations. I don't think that any benefit of the doubt applies here.
I don't agree at all. Investigations are investigations. People don't get special rights for being rich and powerful.
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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:45 pm

ed wrote:
Let me ask you a serious question.

If the feds wanted to get you do you think they could? I mean, do you think you could survive an FBI "interview" without being caught in a lie? Could anyone? And if they said you lied and you didn't, how exactly would you go about proving it? Ask for the tapes? :roll:
Any agency can do this. Without a tape you contest it at trial. The FBI usually doesn't need those notes to nail you though. As I get to below, this is an agency that tends to do their homework.

They are starting to tape confrontational interviews, but that really isn't the problem. The problem is that the penalties in the federal system are just absurdly harsh, so innocence is besides the point because rolling the dice at trial is insane. But that tactic isn't on the FBI as much as the AG and individual AUSAs, and ultimately Congress.

I'll fully agree that there is mind-bending potential for abuse in the federal system far in excess of what is believable in certain aspects of the law. No question.

That said, of all the police agencies I've ever had dealings with, my confidence in the FBI is so far above every other branch I've dealt with that I'm not sure I could name a second. They aren't perfect, mind you, they have the same problems with any other agency ran by humans. I don't do federal stuff as a rule, in part because it is no fun because they rarely screw anything up making it no fun for me.

So, even though I literally make most of my living being critical of law enforcement, I don't find these texts anywhere near severe enough to discredit this agency as a whole, especially before we find out about how they handle how the bias effected the investigation. It isn't good, but the people screaming about a coup are out of their fucking minds, or are using it as a tactic because the FBI has the goods on them and this is what is left.

This is a political ploy to disrupt an investigation, nothing more. These otherwise law and order fanatic assholes are willing to try to flush a respectable agency down the drain by making wild claims in the press rather than contest their findings within the system like they expect the little people to do.

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:09 pm

It occurs to me to add to the above:

If this guy was a city police detective involved in one of my cases that did the above, I would attack it within the case. I would consider going around and claiming the entire police department to be illegitimate as unethical.

There is a point where I would do that. It has been a while since I have dealt with them, but in the past I have not hesitated to give a blanket opinion that my state crime lab was completely unreliable due to bias, incompetence, and just generally being full of shit. I advocated that it be erased completely to be replaced by a new lab not in any way affiliated with law enforcement and independently managed.

The FBI is nowhere near the latter. It is an independent agency not under the thumb of the chief executive and has not been repeatedly caught out in outright fraud that was tolerated/assisted as a matter of policy. They have a few bad apples.

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by ed » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:25 pm

You say "a few bad apples Mr. c, how many would that be, exactly?"

"So you now say one or two. You do understand that 'few' means three. Do you make it a practice to lie to federal authorities? Do you like that law license? Why don't you tell us something about Doc X and those Iranian goats"

The thing is the system is designed so that you simply never know about the abuses.
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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by WildCat » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:56 am

RCC: Act II wrote:Considering the two guilty pleas, I'm gonna go with yes.
2 guilty pleas relating to process crimes. And what smart prosecutor forces a guilty plea for lying (about something that wasn't even a crime) if they intend to use that witness to convict others?

Mueller has jack shit, every new revelation proves it. Democrats screech about how Trump is Putin's puppet and colluded with him, then why the fuck are Russian agents trying to get access to nobodies like Carter Page? It's ridiculous, and Mueller is doing nothing but fishing. Going after transition emails is pure desperation.
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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by Grammatron » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:30 am

WildCat wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Considering the two guilty pleas, I'm gonna go with yes.
2 guilty pleas relating to process crimes. And what smart prosecutor forces a guilty plea for lying (about something that wasn't even a crime) if they intend to use that witness to convict others?

Mueller has jack shit, every new revelation proves it. Democrats screech about how Trump is Putin's puppet and colluded with him, then why the fuck are Russian agents trying to get access to nobodies like Carter Page? It's ridiculous, and Mueller is doing nothing but fishing. Going after transition emails is pure desperation.
Theoretically there's no reason for Mueller to go on forever. The only thing that will stop him is either a conviction of Trump or political and public support for Trump to show him the door. That might not happen until the end of 2018.

Nice job if you can get it.

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 pm

WildCat wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Considering the two guilty pleas, I'm gonna go with yes.
2 guilty pleas relating to process crimes. And what smart prosecutor forces a guilty plea for lying (about something that wasn't even a crime) if they intend to use that witness to convict others?

Mueller has jack shit, every new revelation proves it. Democrats screech about how Trump is Putin's puppet and colluded with him, then why the fuck are Russian agents trying to get access to nobodies like Carter Page? It's ridiculous, and Mueller is doing nothing but fishing. Going after transition emails is pure desperation.
Basically this adds up to "I have no idea how a complex criminal investigation works"

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:44 pm

Grammatron wrote: Theoretically there's no reason for Mueller to go on forever. The only thing that will stop him is either a conviction of Trump or political and public support for Trump to show him the door. That might not happen until the end of 2018.

Nice job if you can get it.
In complex cases somewhere in the 24 month period is when the open-endedness of it starts to be an issue. My guess is that if he has stuff, and as far as I can tell there are a few Trump flunkies that should be carrying toothbrushes, he's likely to get indictments a bit earlier than is optimal to head this off.

He had access to the transition team e-mails when people who he interviewed didn't know he had access, and that suggests there very well could be perjury indictments looming, which is why the "FBI are a bunch of liberal stooges" narrative is being pushed so hard.

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by Doctor X » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:59 pm

Unless, like in the case of Oliver "Off the Shelf" North and his superior, it gets tossed based on how the FBI obtained said e-mails.

Whatever.

This remains one huge argumentum ad ignorantiam where "Both Sides" can argue every detail since the truth is unknown. "There's more evidences--thanks--that Hillary colluded with Putin over dossier!!11!" "If nothing happened, then why indictments!" "Feds always win! 99.97% conviction rate!" "Unless you are Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, or Ted Bundy!"

I found more rational arguments over the Tuck Rule and the Jessie James Non-Catch.

"The longer it goes, the more evidences he is gathering to TURN PENCE AND IMPEACH!!1!!" Certainly.

Unless he has found nothing and needs to justify it.

Or, like Ken Starr, he either "found nothing/could not get an imprisoned witness to testify under immunity" with the Japanese Original Object d'Investigation but found Something Else.

"SEEE HE FOUND EVIDENCES OF TRUMP RAPE!!"

I am beginning to suspect that if anything "comes out" it will take another two years unless it takes a month or nothing will come out.

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:00 pm

Doctor X wrote:Unless, like in the case of Oliver "Off the Shelf" North and his superior, it gets tossed based on how the FBI obtained said e-mails.
Unlikely. There was no reasonable expectation of privacy in those.

It would be fitting if this administration was brought down because they didn't understand the details of their own e-mail practices.

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by Doctor X » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:30 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:Unlikely. There was no reasonable expectation of privacy in those.
That was not the objection raised by the lawyers.
The transition maintains the emails, which were on a government domain, were its property and should not have been handed over without its approval. The emails in question involve 13 transition officials, including four senior ones, according to the letter.

Clinton News Network
there are other objections as well--the critical one a few more paragraphs down.

Whether they have merit, will have merit, et cetera is another thing entirely.

--J.D.
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"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
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"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:50 pm

Doctor X wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Unlikely. There was no reasonable expectation of privacy in those.
That was not the objection raised by the lawyers.

The transition maintains the emails, which were on a government domain, were its property and should not have been handed over without its approval. The emails in question involve 13 transition officials, including four senior ones, according to the letter.

Clinton News Network
there are other objections as well--the critical one a few more paragraphs down.

Whether they have merit, will have merit, et cetera is another thing entirely.

--J.D.
The GSA was a third party that told the transition team they would comply with law enforcement requests. That obliterates any 4th amendment claim and raises waiver problems for the privileges that likely don't apply anyway.

The complaints that the Mueller didn't tell the transition team about the e-mails is pretty lol on several levels.

These guys couldn't act more guilty if they tried.

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by Doctor X » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:49 pm

Actually they could, but you already your bias in this matter has been noted.

You are directed to the links in the article as well as some wonderful search functions that reveal the actual objections and why the actual lawyers on both sides do not respond to this issue with "lol" or even "snort my taint." Then you may respond ad rem if you wish, though I caution that far enough irrelevant dismissive hand-wavers and slogan spouters from both sides exist on various cable news shows, some of whom have magnificent tits.

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"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by WildCat » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:32 pm

Doctor X wrote:some of whom have magnificent tits.

--J.D.
Evidence?
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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by Doctor X » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:25 pm

Just watch Fox.

You think I watched it for the commentary?

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by Skeeve » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:15 pm

Comey's Original Clinton Memo Revealed, Shows Deletions Of Felony Evidence
The Hill was first to report late last year that Comey originally concluded Clinton was “grossly negligent” – the statutory term supporting felony mishandling of classified information – when she and her aides transmitted 110 emails containing classified information through her nonsecure server but that subordinates edited the term to the lesser “extremely careless.”

As The Hill reports, the full draft, with edits, leaves little doubt that Comey originally wrote on May 2, 2016 that there was evidence that Clinton and top aides may have violated both felony and misdemeanor statutes, though he did not believe he could prove intent before a jury.
Which I suppose gives Comey an out...but it is interesting anyway.
...
For example, as The Hill notes, Comey originally wrote:
“Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statute proscribing gross negligence in the handling of classified information and of the statute proscribing misdemeanor mishandling, my judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.
That passage, however, was subsequently edited to remove the references to “gross negligence” and “misdemeanor mishandling,” leaving a much more generic reference to “potential violations of the statutes.”
I'm sure that Barry (no balls) Obama could have gotten a 'reasonable prosecutor' to make that call.
Be that as it may, It doesn't seem to me that it was Comey's call to make.
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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:24 pm

Skeeve wrote:[

I'm sure that Barry (no balls) Obama could have gotten a 'reasonable prosecutor' to make that call.
Be that as it may, It doesn't seem to me that it was Comey's call to make.
It has been covered. There was some language changed in the last draft of the memo that did not change the conclusion. Drafts are drafts for a reason.

The AG, a Democrat, agreed to follow the recommendation of the head of the FBI, a Republican, in order to avoid an appearance of impropriety. Since Obama wasn't trying to be an autocrat, he followed the established practice of letting the AG use independent judgement about these matters.

These are alien concepts to the Trump administration, which is reason #1 they can go fuck themselves.

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by ed » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:14 pm

(CNN)Former FBI Director James Comey drafted a statement exonerating former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for running her government emails through a private email server before completing the investigation, according to two Republican senators.

Comey prepared the draft exoneration for Clinton before conducting interviews with top Clinton aides who were offered immunity for their cooperation, Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley and Sen. Lindsey Graham said Thursday in a joint statement, citing transcripts of interviews with former Comey aides obtained by the Senate judiciary committee.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/31/politics/ ... index.html

Why would he do that? I don't buy that he was just getting hisd ducks in a row.
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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:23 pm

ed wrote:
(CNN)Former FBI Director James Comey drafted a statement exonerating former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for running her government emails through a private email server before completing the investigation, according to two Republican senators.

Comey prepared the draft exoneration for Clinton before conducting interviews with top Clinton aides who were offered immunity for their cooperation, Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley and Sen. Lindsey Graham said Thursday in a joint statement, citing transcripts of interviews with former Comey aides obtained by the Senate judiciary committee.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/31/politics/ ... index.html

Why would he do that? I don't buy that he was just getting hisd ducks in a row.
It was a draft. Had he learned something new he probably would have rewritten accordingly. I am always writing while investigating, especially when under any sort of time pressure. It is pretty standard.

It's just a cheap shot.

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Re: Some Extraordinary Revelations In Congress Yesterday 12/7

Post by Doctor X » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:32 pm

I am sure Comey had a draft recommending charges for indictment that he written before the principle witnesses were interviewed.

--J.D.
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"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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