#MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby RCC: Act II » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:20 pm

ed wrote:The plural of anecdote is not evidence yet many of these things rise above mere storytelling.
If it is a fact that one in the Star Chamber cannot have a lawyer that is a severe problem, as is not having early access to all "evidence" as well as ... well, you get the idea. Are these assertions lies?


I don't get early access to all the evidence in a criminal case. Most prosecutors just turn over the file, but some try to hide the ball as long as possible. One thing that is a common thread in my experience is that most people think the criminal justice system provides far more rights and protections than it does. I blame TV, and certain political interests that want people to think accused criminals are being coddled.

The lawyer thing depends on the context. I suspect it is either overblown or the school needs straightened out.

Lies? Have no idea. They are being told from a certain point of view though, and in my experience for every one legitimate complaint about any system of this type there are ten people who are mad to the point their perspective is not all that trustworthy. Personal anecdotes about being screwed over are something I've learned to comprehensively scrutinize rather than take at face value.

I'm sure some falsely accused persons are getting screwed over. I think the concern over this, especially by men, is that the idea of a false accusation is absolutely terrifying in a relatable way, whereas the experience of being sexually assaulted and having the person doing it go free is not.

In a non-criminal context, these are equally valid interests. Weighing them equally isn't going to be easy. Some colleges will have to be sued.

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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Grammatron » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:58 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Not fully. The criminal system is about punishment, the civil is about redressing harm and making a victim whole, and the college system is about campus safety and how that relates to education access.

Three different interests served by three different types of proceedings.


That's very noble and all but the victims tend to the accused.


I'm not being snarky, but I'm assuming there is a word or two missing from that and I'm not clear of the meaning.

If it is the word "be" between "to" and "the", my response is that I live in a reality where false accusations of sexual assault are way, way less in number than are campus sexual assaults.


The word is indeed "be" but your conclusion is not my claim. When it came to Title IX investigations, the victims tended to be the accused.
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Skeeve » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:12 pm

ed wrote:I wonder if suc proceedings are violations of human rights? Wonder if you could get redress in the Hague?

From the recent anecdote article...
...
...it is clear that the Obama administration rightly viewed campus assault overwhelmingly as something male students do to female ones.
...
Pressing schools to improve what were sometimes haphazard procedures surrounding sexual-assault allegations; to provide clear rules about what constitutes consent and to publicize those rules on campus; and to encourage students to look out for one another—these were all worthy ends. Biden said regularly that one sexual assault is too many, and that is inarguably true.

Yet from the beginning, the administration’s efforts showed signs of overreach, and that overreach became more pronounced over time. By early 2014, the terminology used by the federal government to describe the two parties in still-unresolved sexual-assault cases had begun to change. The 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter had used the terms complainant (and sometimes alleged victim) and alleged perpetrator. But many subsequent federal documents described a complainant as a victim or a survivor, and the accused as a perpetrator.

Now where have I seen that before...

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/a ... cy/538974/
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Skeeve » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:31 am

Meanwhile back at the witch hunts....

Judge rebukes UC-Santa Barbara for using ‘trauma informed’ approach in Title IX proceeding

Administrators in California public colleges should sit up and take notice of a new ruling out of the state Superior Court against the University of California regents.

Not only were they ordered to pay $31,000 to an accused student in a Title IX proceeding, but Judge Tara Desautels specifically faulted the “trauma informed” training that was used in the University of California-Santa Barbara’s proceeding against “John Doe.”

This approach to investigating sexual violence, commonly used in Title IX proceedings nationwide and increasingly in police investigations, has come under fire from neuroscience researchers and legal experts as unscientific and biased against accused people. It essentially tells investigators and adjudicators to view inconsistent and shifting explanations by accusers as evidence they were victimized.
So what is that all about?

See this (somewhat loonger) article from The Atlantic.
The Bad Science Behind Campus Response to Sexual Assault
Assertions about how trauma physiologically impedes the ability to resist or coherently remember assault have greatly undermined defense against assault allegations. But science offers little support for these claims.


Thanks Obama!
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby ed » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:03 pm

Wasn't there something like this with the "recovered memories" that screwed so many people over?
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Pyrrho » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:45 am

https://pagesix.com/2018/04/25/tina-bro ... on-series/

Disgraced CBS anchor Charlie Rose is being slated to star in a show where he’ll interview other high-profile men who have also been toppled by #MeToo scandals.

The move was revealed by editor, writer and women’s advocate Tina Brown, who confirmed to Page Six that she was recently approached to produce a #MeToo atonement series starring Rose, who would interview others embroiled in sexual harassment scandals.

Brown — who added that she passed on the project — first mentioned the proposed Rose redemption show while she appeared at a Q&A this week at the Brooklyn Bridge Park Conservancy’s Women’s Luncheon.


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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Doctor X » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:11 am

Because Hitler is too booked to interview Stalin.

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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Skeeve » Wed May 09, 2018 12:33 pm

Feminists take note: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Thinks Some College Title IX Trials Are Unfair to the Accused

Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg thinks colleges and universities are violating the due process rights of students facing sexual misconduct charges.

The Atlantic's Jeffrey Rosen asked the Court's second-ever female justice for her thoughts on the #MeToo movement. Unsurprisingly, Ginsburg was happy about the increased public attention being paid to the problems of sexual harassment and gender-based inequality in the workplace. But she was also concerned about protecting the due process rights of the accused—particularly on college campuses:
Rosen: What about due process for the accused?

Ginsburg: Well, that must not be ignored and it goes beyond sexual harassment. The person who is accused has a right to defend herself or himself, and we certainly should not lose sight of that. Recognizing that these are complaints that should be heard. There's been criticism of some college codes of conduct for not giving the accused person a fair opportunity to be heard, and that's one of the basic tenets of our system, as you know, everyone deserves a fair hearing.

Rosen: Are some of those criticisms of the college codes valid?

Ginsburg: Do I think they are? Yes.

Note that Ginsburg was asked about due process, but not campuses specifically. The fact that she immediately suggested college codes of conduct as an example of a policy that sometimes violates "the basic tenets of our system," says a great deal about the glaring unfairness of the modern approach to Title IX, the federal statute that requires universities to investigate sexual harassment and assault. And Ginsburg didn't just make note of the controversy; she explicitly said critics of the current procedures have a point.

One of those critics, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, has rescinded some of the federal guidance that had contributed to the problem. A legacy of the Obama-era campus sexual misconduct, dictates the infamous 2011 "Dear Colleague" letter had instructed universities to follow sexual misconduct procedures that left little room for due process. The new administration withdrew this letter last September, though most universities have insisted that they will continue to operate as before.
Thanks Obama!
This means that many students who are accused of misconduct will still face investigatory procedures that seem hopelessly biased against them. Accused students are routinely denied the right to confront their accusers, refused access to crucial information about the nature of the charges against them, and forced to prove their innocence to a single bureaucrat who gets to play judge, jury, executioner, lead detective, and prosecutor.

Defenders of what are commonly called "victim-centered" investigatory procedures say preventing rape is more important than obeying due process. But this is a false dichotomy, according to Ginsburg:
Rosen: I think people are hungry for your thoughts about how to balance the values of due process against the need for increased gender equality.

Ginsburg: It's not one or the other. It's both. We have a system of justice where people who are accused get due process, so it's just applying to this field what we have applied generally.

Students who were found responsible for sexual misconduct often sue their universities for violating their due process rights, and many of them have prevailed in court. If a campus sexual misconduct case adjudicated under the deficient standards ever made it all the way to the Supreme Court, it certainly sounds like Ginsburg would question whether the accused was given a meaningful opportunity to defend himself.

Typically the universities settle out of court, and it never gets close to the SCOTUS...
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Skeeve » Wed May 09, 2018 1:19 pm

But, in at least one case this TITLE IX bullshit went to trial and the school lost...big time!
Student Accused of Sexual Assault Wins Big in Court
A U.S. magistrate judge has recommended that a student accused of sexual assault at James Madison University be awarded nearly $850,000 after he successfully sued the institution.
The student, called John Doe in court filings, sued the university in 2015 after he was found responsible for sexual assault.
A university panel initially considered him not responsible, but his accuser, called Jane Doe in court documents, appealed that decision -- John Doe was then suspended until the spring 2020 semester and barred from campus.


"A university panel initially considered him not responsible"
:o
Say what?
He was initially not found responsible!
Considering that under Title IX (Thanks Obama) all the bureaucrat(S) in charge need(s) is a "preponderance of the evidence" — a lower burden of proof than is used it criminal court, to find a student responsible, WTF?

Okay...I'll calm down and stop digressing....
John Doe filed a lawsuit, alleging his 14th Amendment due process rights had been violated. A federal district court judge ruled in his favor last year, ordering that James Madison reinstate him. The student chose not to re-enroll in the university, according to a university spokesman. If he had returned to the university, he could have been subject to another hearing and disciplined for the alleged assault.
The magistrate judge has recommended the court give John Doe a total of $849,231 -- roughly $795,691 in attorney’s fees and about $53,539 in litigation costs -- a surprisingly large payment.
The university intends to object to the recommendation, the spokesman said.
The court’s ruling follows a trend of an increasing number of male students accused of sexual assault who have pursued court action against colleges and won.
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Skeeve » Wed May 09, 2018 5:47 pm

and Finally: Judge rules Ohio State Title IX official can be personally liable for helping rape accuser lie

A year and a half after a federal judge let a due-process lawsuit continue against Ohio State University officials, one of them may face personal ruin for her decisions during a Title IX proceeding.

A reasonable jury could find that Natalie Spiert,” sexual violence support coordinator and advocate for “Jane Roe” during the proceeding, “knew or should have known that Jane Roe lied or misled the disciplinary boardand did not correct the record, U.S. District Judge James Graham ruled Tuesday.
...
“Universities have perhaps, in their zeal to end the scourge of campus sexual assaults, turned a blind eye to the rights of accused students,” Judge Graham said in explaining the importance of cross-examination: “Put another way, the snake might be eating its own tail.”

Roe was on the verge of getting kicked out of medical school – for two consecutive years of academic failure – when she first claimed Doe raped her while she was under an alcohol-induced “blackout” 10 months earlier. Doe was on the verge of graduating from a combined MBA/MD program when he was accused.

According to Brooklyn College Prof. KC Johnson, veteran chronicler of Title IX-related litigation, this is the 89th ruling against a college in a due-process lawsuit since the Obama administration imposed new accuser-friendly rules on Title IX proceedings in 2011.

Thanks Obama!

This is important, because now these "sexual violence support coordinator(s) and advocate(s)" know they can't just hide behind the College or University (which for public and state institutions means the tax payers pony up any damages). Now they can be ruined too....

New game!
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Skeeve » Wed May 23, 2018 12:14 pm

Here Is Every Crazy Title IX Rape Case Betsy DeVos Referenced, Plus a Bunch More

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos today criticized the previous administration's approach to campus sexual assault, accusing it of imposing a "broken system" that mistreats both accused students and rape survivors.
...
DeVos cited several examples of colleges putting students through Kafkaesque quasi-judicial procedures. I promise you they are real. We've written about them at Reason.
...
There are a whole bunch of links to previous articles, some of them are hilarious, others just sad..
...
Critics of DeVos will say that her plan to reform Title IX is some kind of giveaway to rapists. But it's not. Today, DeVos recognized a basic and obvious truth that every objective chronicler of the college rape crisis already knows: The Obama-era modifications to Title IX utterly failed to bring justice to campuses.

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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Skeeve » Sat May 26, 2018 6:10 pm

A commentary on the article from the Atlantic (see above).
Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s Unexpected Warning To The #MeToo Crowd Is A Vital Wakeup Cal

No woman more perfectly encompasses all of the ideals of the feminist movement than Ruth Bader Ginsburg. For 25 years now she’s been on the Supreme Court, winning over the hearts and accolades of liberals world wide. An important author of majority and minority opinions, Ginsburg has cemented herself as an icon for feminists and a role model for young women.

All of this makes her recent comments about Title IX and the #MeToo movement vitally important.
ROSEN: What about due process for the accused?

GINSBURG: Well, that must not be ignored and it goes beyond sexual harassment. The person who is accused has a right to defend herself or himself, and we certainly should not lose sight of that. Recognizing that these are complaints that should be heard. There’s been criticism of some college codes of conduct for not giving the accused person a fair opportunity to be heard, and that’s one of the basic tenets of our system, as you know, everyone deserves a fair hearing.

ROSEN: Are some of those criticisms of the college codes valid?

GINSBURG: Do I think they are? Yes.

...
It’s impossible to deny that Ginsburg has led an impressive life, and as far as feminist cred goes hers is undeniable.
...
The current Title IX system is part of the Education Amendments Act of 1972, and reads in part: “No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.”

The original goal of the Amendment was to ensure that men and women had equal access to educational opportunities, something that Ginsburg herself has passionately fought for her whole career. Title IX, however, has in recent years been used to remove students from universities after rape accusations. The removal process at schools has come under fire for violating due process, and when these cases have come before the courts, courts have started overturning suspensions and allowing lawsuits to proceed. The shift from Title IX being about educational access to campus rape happened after an administration letter was sent out to college campuses in 2011, and this letter changed the burden of proof needed by campus officials.
...
Ginsburg’s words are a common sense breath of fresh air to a process that has become increasingly politicized and divisive. No victim of sexual assault should fear reporting the crime, and no crime should be tried in the court of public opinion instead of the court of law.
...
On this, we can agree with Ginsburg. Men and women should be equal before the law, and it’s vitally important that we treat them equally in our courts.
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Postby Skeeve » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:14 pm

Male Accuser Finally Turns The Tables Against A Female In Campus Kangaroo Courts

It’s finally happened. A male student has accused a female student of sexual assault, claiming he was too drunk to consent to sexual activity. The school, shockingly, found the woman responsible and suspended her until the male student graduates. Now she, like so many wrongly accused male students, is suing her university for violating her due process rights. The case is an unfortunate necessity to show how absurd the current campus environment surrounding sexual assault has become.

Long story shorter, they were both drunk, but he filed his complaint first...
:doglaugh:
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