#MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:20 pm

ed wrote:The plural of anecdote is not evidence yet many of these things rise above mere storytelling.
If it is a fact that one in the Star Chamber cannot have a lawyer that is a severe problem, as is not having early access to all "evidence" as well as ... well, you get the idea. Are these assertions lies?
I don't get early access to all the evidence in a criminal case. Most prosecutors just turn over the file, but some try to hide the ball as long as possible. One thing that is a common thread in my experience is that most people think the criminal justice system provides far more rights and protections than it does. I blame TV, and certain political interests that want people to think accused criminals are being coddled.

The lawyer thing depends on the context. I suspect it is either overblown or the school needs straightened out.

Lies? Have no idea. They are being told from a certain point of view though, and in my experience for every one legitimate complaint about any system of this type there are ten people who are mad to the point their perspective is not all that trustworthy. Personal anecdotes about being screwed over are something I've learned to comprehensively scrutinize rather than take at face value.

I'm sure some falsely accused persons are getting screwed over. I think the concern over this, especially by men, is that the idea of a false accusation is absolutely terrifying in a relatable way, whereas the experience of being sexually assaulted and having the person doing it go free is not.

In a non-criminal context, these are equally valid interests. Weighing them equally isn't going to be easy. Some colleges will have to be sued.

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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Grammatron » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:58 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote: Not fully. The criminal system is about punishment, the civil is about redressing harm and making a victim whole, and the college system is about campus safety and how that relates to education access.

Three different interests served by three different types of proceedings.
That's very noble and all but the victims tend to the accused.
I'm not being snarky, but I'm assuming there is a word or two missing from that and I'm not clear of the meaning.

If it is the word "be" between "to" and "the", my response is that I live in a reality where false accusations of sexual assault are way, way less in number than are campus sexual assaults.
The word is indeed "be" but your conclusion is not my claim. When it came to Title IX investigations, the victims tended to be the accused.

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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:12 pm

ed wrote:I wonder if suc proceedings are violations of human rights? Wonder if you could get redress in the Hague?
From the recent anecdote article...
...
...it is clear that the Obama administration rightly viewed campus assault overwhelmingly as something male students do to female ones.
...
Pressing schools to improve what were sometimes haphazard procedures surrounding sexual-assault allegations; to provide clear rules about what constitutes consent and to publicize those rules on campus; and to encourage students to look out for one another—these were all worthy ends. Biden said regularly that one sexual assault is too many, and that is inarguably true.

Yet from the beginning, the administration’s efforts showed signs of overreach, and that overreach became more pronounced over time. By early 2014, the terminology used by the federal government to describe the two parties in still-unresolved sexual-assault cases had begun to change. The 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter had used the terms complainant (and sometimes alleged victim) and alleged perpetrator. But many subsequent federal documents described a complainant as a victim or a survivor, and the accused as a perpetrator.
Now where have I seen that before...

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/a ... cy/538974/
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:31 am

Meanwhile back at the witch hunts....

Judge rebukes UC-Santa Barbara for using ‘trauma informed’ approach in Title IX proceeding
Administrators in California public colleges should sit up and take notice of a new ruling out of the state Superior Court against the University of California regents.

Not only were they ordered to pay $31,000 to an accused student in a Title IX proceeding, but Judge Tara Desautels specifically faulted the “trauma informed” training that was used in the University of California-Santa Barbara’s proceeding against “John Doe.”

This approach to investigating sexual violence, commonly used in Title IX proceedings nationwide and increasingly in police investigations, has come under fire from neuroscience researchers and legal experts as unscientific and biased against accused people. It essentially tells investigators and adjudicators to view inconsistent and shifting explanations by accusers as evidence they were victimized.
So what is that all about?

See this (somewhat loonger) article from The Atlantic.
The Bad Science Behind Campus Response to Sexual Assault
Assertions about how trauma physiologically impedes the ability to resist or coherently remember assault have greatly undermined defense against assault allegations. But science offers little support for these claims.
Thanks Obama!
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by ed » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:03 pm

Wasn't there something like this with the "recovered memories" that screwed so many people over?
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:45 am

https://pagesix.com/2018/04/25/tina-bro ... on-series/
Disgraced CBS anchor Charlie Rose is being slated to star in a show where he’ll interview other high-profile men who have also been toppled by #MeToo scandals.

The move was revealed by editor, writer and women’s advocate Tina Brown, who confirmed to Page Six that she was recently approached to produce a #MeToo atonement series starring Rose, who would interview others embroiled in sexual harassment scandals.

Brown — who added that she passed on the project — first mentioned the proposed Rose redemption show while she appeared at a Q&A this week at the Brooklyn Bridge Park Conservancy’s Women’s Luncheon.
Why.
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Doctor X » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:11 am

Because Hitler is too booked to interview Stalin.

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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Wed May 09, 2018 12:33 pm

Feminists take note: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Thinks Some College Title IX Trials Are Unfair to the Accused
Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg thinks colleges and universities are violating the due process rights of students facing sexual misconduct charges.

The Atlantic's Jeffrey Rosen asked the Court's second-ever female justice for her thoughts on the #MeToo movement. Unsurprisingly, Ginsburg was happy about the increased public attention being paid to the problems of sexual harassment and gender-based inequality in the workplace. But she was also concerned about protecting the due process rights of the accused—particularly on college campuses:
Rosen: What about due process for the accused?

Ginsburg: Well, that must not be ignored and it goes beyond sexual harassment. The person who is accused has a right to defend herself or himself, and we certainly should not lose sight of that. Recognizing that these are complaints that should be heard. There's been criticism of some college codes of conduct for not giving the accused person a fair opportunity to be heard, and that's one of the basic tenets of our system, as you know, everyone deserves a fair hearing.

Rosen: Are some of those criticisms of the college codes valid?

Ginsburg: Do I think they are? Yes.
Note that Ginsburg was asked about due process, but not campuses specifically. The fact that she immediately suggested college codes of conduct as an example of a policy that sometimes violates "the basic tenets of our system," says a great deal about the glaring unfairness of the modern approach to Title IX, the federal statute that requires universities to investigate sexual harassment and assault. And Ginsburg didn't just make note of the controversy; she explicitly said critics of the current procedures have a point.

One of those critics, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, has rescinded some of the federal guidance that had contributed to the problem. A legacy of the Obama-era campus sexual misconduct, dictates the infamous 2011 "Dear Colleague" letter had instructed universities to follow sexual misconduct procedures that left little room for due process. The new administration withdrew this letter last September, though most universities have insisted that they will continue to operate as before.
Thanks Obama!
This means that many students who are accused of misconduct will still face investigatory procedures that seem hopelessly biased against them. Accused students are routinely denied the right to confront their accusers, refused access to crucial information about the nature of the charges against them, and forced to prove their innocence to a single bureaucrat who gets to play judge, jury, executioner, lead detective, and prosecutor.

Defenders of what are commonly called "victim-centered" investigatory procedures say preventing rape is more important than obeying due process. But this is a false dichotomy, according to Ginsburg:
Rosen: I think people are hungry for your thoughts about how to balance the values of due process against the need for increased gender equality.

Ginsburg: It's not one or the other. It's both. We have a system of justice where people who are accused get due process, so it's just applying to this field what we have applied generally.
Students who were found responsible for sexual misconduct often sue their universities for violating their due process rights, and many of them have prevailed in court. If a campus sexual misconduct case adjudicated under the deficient standards ever made it all the way to the Supreme Court, it certainly sounds like Ginsburg would question whether the accused was given a meaningful opportunity to defend himself.
Typically the universities settle out of court, and it never gets close to the SCOTUS...
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Wed May 09, 2018 1:19 pm

But, in at least one case this TITLE IX bullshit went to trial and the school lost...big time!
Student Accused of Sexual Assault Wins Big in Court
A U.S. magistrate judge has recommended that a student accused of sexual assault at James Madison University be awarded nearly $850,000 after he successfully sued the institution.
The student, called John Doe in court filings, sued the university in 2015 after he was found responsible for sexual assault.
A university panel initially considered him not responsible, but his accuser, called Jane Doe in court documents, appealed that decision -- John Doe was then suspended until the spring 2020 semester and barred from campus.
"A university panel initially considered him not responsible"
:o
Say what?
He was initially not found responsible!
Considering that under Title IX (Thanks Obama) all the bureaucrat(S) in charge need(s) is a "preponderance of the evidence" — a lower burden of proof than is used it criminal court, to find a student responsible, WTF?

Okay...I'll calm down and stop digressing....
John Doe filed a lawsuit, alleging his 14th Amendment due process rights had been violated. A federal district court judge ruled in his favor last year, ordering that James Madison reinstate him. The student chose not to re-enroll in the university, according to a university spokesman. If he had returned to the university, he could have been subject to another hearing and disciplined for the alleged assault.
The magistrate judge has recommended the court give John Doe a total of $849,231 -- roughly $795,691 in attorney’s fees and about $53,539 in litigation costs -- a surprisingly large payment.
The university intends to object to the recommendation, the spokesman said.
The court’s ruling follows a trend of an increasing number of male students accused of sexual assault who have pursued court action against colleges and won.
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Wed May 09, 2018 5:47 pm

and Finally: Judge rules Ohio State Title IX official can be personally liable for helping rape accuser lie
A year and a half after a federal judge let a due-process lawsuit continue against Ohio State University officials, one of them may face personal ruin for her decisions during a Title IX proceeding.

A reasonable jury could find that Natalie Spiert,” sexual violence support coordinator and advocate for “Jane Roe” during the proceeding, “knew or should have known that Jane Roe lied or misled the disciplinary boardand did not correct the record, U.S. District Judge James Graham ruled Tuesday.
...
“Universities have perhaps, in their zeal to end the scourge of campus sexual assaults, turned a blind eye to the rights of accused students,” Judge Graham said in explaining the importance of cross-examination: “Put another way, the snake might be eating its own tail.”

Roe was on the verge of getting kicked out of medical school – for two consecutive years of academic failure – when she first claimed Doe raped her while she was under an alcohol-induced “blackout” 10 months earlier. Doe was on the verge of graduating from a combined MBA/MD program when he was accused.

According to Brooklyn College Prof. KC Johnson, veteran chronicler of Title IX-related litigation, this is the 89th ruling against a college in a due-process lawsuit since the Obama administration imposed new accuser-friendly rules on Title IX proceedings in 2011.
Thanks Obama!

This is important, because now these "sexual violence support coordinator(s) and advocate(s)" know they can't just hide behind the College or University (which for public and state institutions means the tax payers pony up any damages). Now they can be ruined too....

New game!
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Wed May 23, 2018 12:14 pm

Here Is Every Crazy Title IX Rape Case Betsy DeVos Referenced, Plus a Bunch More
Education Secretary Betsy DeVos today criticized the previous administration's approach to campus sexual assault, accusing it of imposing a "broken system" that mistreats both accused students and rape survivors.
...
DeVos cited several examples of colleges putting students through Kafkaesque quasi-judicial procedures. I promise you they are real. We've written about them at Reason.
...
There are a whole bunch of links to previous articles, some of them are hilarious, others just sad..
...
Critics of DeVos will say that her plan to reform Title IX is some kind of giveaway to rapists. But it's not. Today, DeVos recognized a basic and obvious truth that every objective chronicler of the college rape crisis already knows: The Obama-era modifications to Title IX utterly failed to bring justice to campuses.
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Sat May 26, 2018 6:10 pm

A commentary on the article from the Atlantic (see above).
Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s Unexpected Warning To The #MeToo Crowd Is A Vital Wakeup Cal
No woman more perfectly encompasses all of the ideals of the feminist movement than Ruth Bader Ginsburg. For 25 years now she’s been on the Supreme Court, winning over the hearts and accolades of liberals world wide. An important author of majority and minority opinions, Ginsburg has cemented herself as an icon for feminists and a role model for young women.

All of this makes her recent comments about Title IX and the #MeToo movement vitally important.
ROSEN: What about due process for the accused?

GINSBURG: Well, that must not be ignored and it goes beyond sexual harassment. The person who is accused has a right to defend herself or himself, and we certainly should not lose sight of that. Recognizing that these are complaints that should be heard. There’s been criticism of some college codes of conduct for not giving the accused person a fair opportunity to be heard, and that’s one of the basic tenets of our system, as you know, everyone deserves a fair hearing.

ROSEN: Are some of those criticisms of the college codes valid?

GINSBURG: Do I think they are? Yes.
...
It’s impossible to deny that Ginsburg has led an impressive life, and as far as feminist cred goes hers is undeniable.
...
The current Title IX system is part of the Education Amendments Act of 1972, and reads in part: “No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.”

The original goal of the Amendment was to ensure that men and women had equal access to educational opportunities, something that Ginsburg herself has passionately fought for her whole career. Title IX, however, has in recent years been used to remove students from universities after rape accusations. The removal process at schools has come under fire for violating due process, and when these cases have come before the courts, courts have started overturning suspensions and allowing lawsuits to proceed. The shift from Title IX being about educational access to campus rape happened after an administration letter was sent out to college campuses in 2011, and this letter changed the burden of proof needed by campus officials.
...
Ginsburg’s words are a common sense breath of fresh air to a process that has become increasingly politicized and divisive. No victim of sexual assault should fear reporting the crime, and no crime should be tried in the court of public opinion instead of the court of law.
...
On this, we can agree with Ginsburg. Men and women should be equal before the law, and it’s vitally important that we treat them equally in our courts.
Yep, once again I would like to say....

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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:14 pm

Male Accuser Finally Turns The Tables Against A Female In Campus Kangaroo Courts
It’s finally happened. A male student has accused a female student of sexual assault, claiming he was too drunk to consent to sexual activity. The school, shockingly, found the woman responsible and suspended her until the male student graduates. Now she, like so many wrongly accused male students, is suing her university for violating her due process rights. The case is an unfortunate necessity to show how absurd the current campus environment surrounding sexual assault has become.
Long story shorter, they were both drunk, but he filed his complaint first...
:doglaugh:
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:59 pm

Technically Not a Title IX case, (it started in a private college) but it helps to set or confirm a precedent so....
She Texted Him For Months And Said She Wanted Him. Then She Accused Him Of Sexual Assault.
A student accused of sexual assault has received some reprieve after the California state appeals court criticized his college for not allowing him to test the credibility of his accuser through cross-examination.

John Doe, as he’s referred to in court documents, will have his suspension from Claremont McKenna College (CMC) in California overturned after the court determined that his inability to question his accuser, referred to as Jane Roe, hurt his case. Jane had continually sent friendly messages with John and told friends she wanted to date him after their sexual encounter.
...
What makes this ruling interesting is the fact that CMC is a private college, which has generally been freed from the constitutional requirements placed on public colleges and universities.

The California appeals court further concluded that John’s case, and that of the student in the 6th circuit, “distill to a set of core principles applicable to cases where the accused student faces a severe penalty and the school’s determination turns on the complaining witness’s credibility."

As author and professor K.C. Johnson noted on Twitter, requiring a hearing in which the accuser could be questioned to establish credibility, and the questioning itself, “Would seem to wholly rule out the ‘single investigator’ model praised by the Obama [administration].”
Thanks Obama!
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:21 pm

New U.S. Sexual Misconduct Rules Bolster Rights of Accused and Protect Colleges
WASHINGTON — Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is preparing new policies on campus sexual misconduct that would bolster the rights of students accused of assault, harassment or rape, reduce liability for institutions of higher education and encourage schools to provide more support for victims.

The proposed rules, obtained by The New York Times, narrow the definition of sexual harassment, holding schools accountable only for formal complaints filed through proper authorities and for conduct said to have occurred on their campuses. They would also establish a higher legal standard to determine whether schools improperly addressed complaints.

The new rules would come at a particularly sensitive time, as major institutions such as Ohio State University, the University of Southern California and Michigan State University deal with explosive charges that members of their faculty and staff have perpetrated serious sexual misconduct. But for several years, higher education administrators have maintained that sexual misconduct rules pressed by the Obama administration
Spoiler:
Image
...unnecessarily burdened them with bureaucratic mandates that had little to do with assault or harassment, and men’s rights groups have said the accused have had little recourse.

Unlike the Obama administration’s guidance documents, the Trump administration’s new rules will have the force of law and can go into force without an act of Congress, after a public comment period.
...
While the issue has centered on allegations against students on college campuses, it also applies to elementary and secondary schools and allegations against teachers, professors and other employees.

“The department recognizes that despite well-intentioned efforts by school districts, colleges and universities, advocacy organizations and the department itself, sexual harassment and assault continue to present serious problems across the nation’s campuses,” the department wrote in the draft rule. “The lack of clear regulatory standards has contributed to processes that have not been fair to all parties involved, that have lacked appropriate procedural protections and that have undermined confidence in the reliability of the outcomes of investigations of sexual harassment allegations.”

Advocates of victims rights condemned the proposals.
NSFW:
Image
They are “a tacit endorsement of making campuses a safer place to commit sexual assault, rather than a safer place to learn free from violence,” said Jess Davidson, the executive director of End Rape on Campus.

But groups that have long challenged the sexual assault policies under the Obama administration praised the proposed rules.
...
The new rules would adopt a new Supreme Court definition of “sexual harassment” that appears to be reserved for repeated complaints or the most egregious allegations. The new rules would define sexual harassment to mean “unwelcome conduct on the basis of sex that is so severe, pervasive and objectively offensive that it denies a person access to the school’s education program or activity.”
...
The new rules would require that institutions only be held legally responsible for investigating formal complaints and responding to reports that school officials have “actual knowledge” of happening. A formal complaint is one made to “an official who has the authority to institute corrective measures,” not, for instance, a residential adviser in a dormitory.
...
The regulations require that schools approach all investigations under the presumption that the accused is innocent until proved guilty.
You mean it is kind of like the constitution?

What a novel idea...Be still my heart....
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Doctor X » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:40 am

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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:18 pm

Physicist Uses Physics To Rebut Sexual Misconduct Allegations
The title pretty much sums up his documented rebuttal of the "charges" against him, however of note...
Arizona State University physicist Lawrence M. Krauss spent 40 years building his reputation. All of that was taken away after a few women accused him of inappropriate comments or touches.
...
In the statement Krauss released with the appeal document, he lamented the Title IX process that led to his downfall.

“Independent of my own situation, there are important issues that need to be addressed regarding Title IX procedures at universities throughout the U.S.,” he wrote. “An eerie Kafkaesque system is now the almost the [sic] norm throughout U.S. higher education, often involving a single, and sometimes biased, investigator who may play the role of prosecutor, judge and jury, in a process where accused individuals, often students, may not have access to counsel or evidence or even sometimes to the accusations themselves, or have [the] ability to question evidence or cross-examine witnesses before a judgement is made.
A big thank you to Barry (no balls) Obama and his DOE's "Dear Colleague" letter....good job!
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:33 am

Interesting. I posted a different link in another thread, but this is the first time seeing something that takes his side of the story.

I kinda liked Krauss. I don't know if I would go so far as to call myself a fan, but he seemed like a decent enough skeptical chap.
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:20 am

Lawsuit: 'Predatory' Dartmouth professors plied students with alcohol and raped them
(CNN)Three former Dartmouth College professors turned the school's Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences into a "21st Century Animal House," where female students were subjected to rape and sexual harassment, a federal lawsuit alleges.

Tenured professors Todd Heatherton, William Kelley, and Paul Whalen treated women as sex objects, the lawsuit from seven women claims. The men, who no longer are allowed on campus, coerced them into drinking and made the women feel as if their success depended on their willingness to go along with the "alcohol-saturated" culture the prominent researchers created, according to the complaint.

Kelley and Whalen have not responded to CNN's requests for comment. In a statement through his lawyer, Heatherton categorically denied "playing any role in creating a toxic environment at Dartmouth College," and said he was disturbed by the allegations. None of the plaintiffs were his graduate students, the statement adds.

The lawsuit, filed Thursday, comes as US universities continue to grapple with how to handle allegations of campus sexual misconduct and their obligations under Title IX, the federal law that bars discrimination based on sex, including harassment, in federally funded education programs and activities.
The women are suing Dartmouth's trustees for $70 million in damages, based on allegations the Ivy League school breached its duty to protect them from sexual harassment. The suit also accuses the New Hampshire institution of failing to create an environment free from gender-based discrimination, in violation of Title IX.

"The seven Plaintiffs, each an exemplary female scientist at the start of her career, came to Dartmouth to contribute to a crucial and burgeoning field of academic study. Plaintiffs were instead sexually harassed and sexually assaulted by the Department's tenured professors and expected to tolerate increasing levels of sexual predation," the lawsuit states.

As many as 40 current and former female students may be eligible to join the class-action suit, plaintiffs' attorneys told CNN. Three of the women are still at Dartmouth, the suit states.
Hmmm, maybe. Then again, maybe some people looking for a payday? Also, "coerced them into drinking"? "made them feel as if their success depended on" . . . yadda yadda? :notsure:
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Re: #MeTo (TITLE IX edition)

Post by Skeeve » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:06 am

Just Because a Woman Puts a Penis in Her Mouth Doesn’t Mean She Consented, Says College Sex Expert
Say what?
...
And perhaps most striking was the story Stontland related involving a girl who initiated oral sex with another of her clients but never gave a verbal "yes": "If you go in somebody’s dorm room and she touches you, and places your penis in her mouth, she has not conveyed consent," she said.

Tablet's Rosenfield argued that the current fixation on affirmative consent promoted by many feminists is in fact ​damaging to the same women the movement seeks to defend.

​"But if your goal is to protect women at all costs from feeling bad about their choices—because you don’t think they can handle it, and they probably don’t know what they want anyway—then we already have a word for that," she wrote.

"It’s not feminism. It’s paternalism. And it denies women a fundamental if unglamorous freedom: to not just make decisions, but to live with and learn from the consequences of their less-than-great ones."
Feminism....

The site has a link to an audio interview with a person (female) who handles cases of people (mostly guys) who have been accused under title IX (thanks Obama) talking with a pro title IX female....
Then Skank Of America could start in...