Trump Tax Bill

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Trump Tax Bill

Post by ed » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:25 pm

Have not reviewed it yet but we should bitch about it here.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:09 pm

It's a tax cut for the rich.

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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by ed » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:38 pm

So? You say that like it's a bad thing.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:58 pm

Idiot!


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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:01 pm

All tax cuts are tax cuts for the rich (whatever else they might be).
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by WildCat » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:17 pm

It's not like the Democrats ever cut taxes for anyone. If they had their way everyone would pay $5/gallon for gas. Hell 80% of the people paying the Obamacare penalty are lower income.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:18 pm

There are some specifics that were mentioned that were holy shit level bad, but I'll wait until I know what I'm talking about before I say anything about that.

My suspicion is that this law is going to be a massive unforced error, not so much based on the policy itself as much that it was drafted by morons I wouldn't trust to write a recipe for pepperoni rolls, so there are going to be some really, really severe and weird unintended consequences that are going to be hard to brush off.

That is just a guess.

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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:21 pm

WildCat wrote:It's not like the Democrats ever cut taxes for anyone. ...
Didn't they just rescind that stupid sugar tax in Chicago (after pushing it through with accusations of genocide against the original detractors)?

It turned out they were actually losing money on the deal somehow. Or so they said.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by WildCat » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:29 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
WildCat wrote:It's not like the Democrats ever cut taxes for anyone. ...
Didn't they just rescind that stupid sugar tax in Chicago (after pushing it through with accusations of genocide against the original detractors)?

It turned out they were actually losing money on the deal somehow. Or so they said.
That was all of Cook County and it was repealed after a massive public outcry. The problem was a quirk in the law made it show up as a seperate tax on receipts, so everyobe could see it. They couldn't boil the frog like they prefer to do to hide the taxes on the little guy.

And it wasn't a sugar tax, it was a sweetened beverage tax. Even sugar-free diet drinks were taxed if they had artificial sweeteners. Exempted, of course, were the 500 calorie choco mocha lattes at the snooty coffee shops the ruling class prefers.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:01 pm

It'll be something else later of course.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by Jimmy the Gent » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:37 am

Gimme my fuckin' money! Today! Today!
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by Morrie » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:35 am

You . . . you got it, kid.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:56 pm

US tax reform promises big income boost for German carmakers
The Local (Germany)
German carmakers Daimler and BMW said Friday a new sweeping US tax reform giving major breaks to corporations will add hundreds of millions of euros to their 2017 earnings.

The controversial tax overhaul signed into law Friday by billionaire President Donald Trump will slash the US corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent.

As a result, Daimler projected its net income to grow by around 1.7 billion euros ($2 billion) this year.

...

BMW also said it expected the tax changes to have a "positive impact" on its 2017 net profit, boosting it by between 950 million and 1.55 billion euros.

...
Is America great again yet? :|
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by ed » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:12 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:US tax reform promises big income boost for German carmakers
The Local (Germany)
German carmakers Daimler and BMW said Friday a new sweeping US tax reform giving major breaks to corporations will add hundreds of millions of euros to their 2017 earnings.

The controversial tax overhaul signed into law Friday by billionaire President Donald Trump will slash the US corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent.

As a result, Daimler projected its net income to grow by around 1.7 billion euros ($2 billion) this year.

...

BMW also said it expected the tax changes to have a "positive impact" on its 2017 net profit, boosting it by between 950 million and 1.55 billion euros.

...
Is America great again yet? :|
Which, with luck, will encourage them to increase investment in the US market. Remember they employ 1000+ people here. I mean, they are mostly Nazis but still, they contribute to our economy.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:22 am

It it helps Daimler and BMW, it probably also helps Ford, GM and Chrysler. Assuming they are profitable.
Toyota, Honda, et al. too.

They may invest more, but those decisions depend on what they think the demand for their cars will be going forward.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by ed » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:49 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:It it helps Daimler and BMW, it probably also helps Ford, GM and Chrysler. Assuming they are profitable.
Toyota, Honda, et al. too.

They may invest more, but those decisions depend on what they think the demand for their cars will be going forward.
Big companies are in the money business, their "products" are incidental. McD, for example is in real estate
http://blog.wallstreetsurvivor.com/2015 ... he-burger/
I recall one of their executives telling me BITD (back in the day) that they were the largest real estate owners in the US.

I also recall something about Kraft's credit union as being beyond enormous.

They put vast amounts of money off-shore, too.
Mar 1, 2017 - All told, Fortune 500 corporations are avoiding up to $767 billion in U.S. federal income taxes by holding more than $2.6 trillion of “permanently reinvested” profits offshore.
https://itep.org/wp-content/uploads/pre0327.pdf

How do you get the $ back? My assumption was that Trump knew about such things and would act. We shall see.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by ed » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:52 pm

Commentary: Democrats may wish they'd supported Trump's tax cut
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary ... s-tax-cut/

I am beginning to wonder abut the bitching about this bill. It seems to address some key issues and certainly has a benefit for the poorer wage earners.

It might be part of the TDS
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by ed » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:25 pm

Here is a summary from the Clinton News Network
http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/15/news/ec ... index.html
FOR INDIVIDUAL FILERS

1. Lowers (many) individual rates: The bill preserves seven tax brackets, but changes the rates that apply to: 10%, 12%, 22%, 24%, 32%, 35% and 37%.

Today's rates are 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33%, 35% and 39.6%.

Here's how much income would apply to the new rates:
-- 10% (income up to $9,525 for individuals; up to $19,050 for married couples filing jointly)
-- 12% (over $9,525 to $38,700; over $19,050 to $77,400 for couples)
-- 22% (over $38,700 to $82,500; over $77,400 to $165,000 for couples)
-- 24% (over $82,500 to $157,500; over $165,000 to $315,000 for couples)
-- 32% (over $157,500 to $200,000; over $315,000 to $400,000 for couples)
-- 35% (over $200,000 to $500,000; over $400,000 to $600,000 for couples)
-- 37% (over $500,000; over $600,000 for couples)
I know Trump is evil and the Republicans are the party of the rich but this looks like an across the board reduction in personal taxes. I suppose I would have left the two top rates where they were but WTF, I suspect that excess wealth trickles down more efficiently from individuals than stupid and grossly inefficient government programs.
2. Nearly doubles the standard deduction: For single filers, the bill increases it to $12,000 from $6,350 currently; for married couples filing jointly it increases to $24,000 from $12,700.

The net effect: The percentage of filers who choose to itemize would drop sharply, since the only reason to do so is if your deductions exceed your standard deduction.
Good thing, I think.
3. Eliminates personal exemptions: Today you're allowed to claim a $4,050 personal exemption for yourself, your spouse and each of your dependents. Doing so lowers your taxable income and thus your tax burden. The GOP tax plan eliminates that option.

For families with three or more kids, that could mute if not negate any tax relief they might get as a result of other provisions in the bill.
I understand the theoretical impact. Who the fuck has large families? Do they actually pay any taxes in the first place? Do knuckle dragging bastards with enormous families actually earn over $24K? I am to lazy to construct a "Tax Surface". My gut tells me that the actual impact of this is a liberal talking point rather than something real.

4. Caps state and local tax deduction: The final bill will preserve the state and local tax deduction for anyone who itemizes, but it will cap the amount that may be deducted at $10,000. Today the deduction is unlimited for your state and local property taxes plus income or sales taxes.

The SALT break has been on the book for more than a century. The original House and Senate GOP bills sought to repeal it entirely to help pay for the tax cuts, but that met with stiff resistance from lawmakers in high-tax states.

Residents in the vast majority of counties across the country claim an average SALT deduction below $10,000, according to the Tax Foundation. So for low- and middle-income families who currently itemize because of their SALT deduction, they're likely to take the much higher standard deduction under the bill if it becomes law, unless their total itemized deductions, including SALT, top $12,000 if single or $24,000 if married filing jointly.

Preserving the break -- albeit with a cap -- is likely to provide more help to higher income households in high-tax states.
hmmmmm ... looks like I am fucked. Looks like a sop to rich liberals in NY and Cali. Seems that the net impact on middle class people is sorta small.
5. Expands child tax credit: The credit would be doubled to $2,000 for children under 17. It also would be made available to high earners because the bill would raise the income threshold under which filers may claim the full credit to $200,000 for single parents, up from $75,000 today; and to $400,000 for married couples, up from $110,000 today.

Like the first $1,000 of the child tax credit, $400 of the additional $1,000 also will be refundable, meaning a low- or middle-income family will be able get the money refunded to them if their federal income tax liability nets out at zero.

Even with the additional $400 in refundability, however, 10 million children from working low-income families would receive only an additional $75 in benefit under the bill, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities estimates
.
Hmmm see the bias in the words? "receive only an additional" as opposed to "receive an additional". Seems like a benefit to all concerned.

6. Creates temporary credit for non-child dependents: The bill would allow parents to take a $500 credit for each non-child dependent whom they're supporting, such as a child 17 or older, an ailing elderly parent or an adult child with a disability.
Knock the pain in the ass off, use the $500 for burial expenses.
7. Lowers cap on mortgage interest deduction: If you take out a new mortgage on a first or second home you would only be allowed to deduct the interest on debt up to $750,000, down from $1 million today. Homeowners who already have a mortgage would be unaffected by the change.


The bill would no longer allow a deduction for the interest on home equity loans. Currently that's allowed on loans up to $100,000.
Funding benefits for the poor by fucking the rich :x :x Didn't see any liberals bitch about this.
8. Curbs who's hit by AMT: Earlier bills called for the elimination of the Alternative Minimum Tax. The final version keeps it, but reduces the number of filers who would be hit by it by raising the income exemption levels to $70,300 for singles, up from $54,300 today; and to $109,400, up from $84,500, for married couples.
No idea and now I am getting bored.
9. Preserves smaller but popular tax breaks: Earlier versions of the bill had proposed repealing the deductions for medical expenses, student loan interest and classroom supplies bought with a teacher's own money. They also would have repealed the tax-free status of tuition waivers for graduate students.

The final bill, however, preserves all of these as they are under the current code. And it actually expands the medical expense deduction for 2018 and 2019.
OK
10. Exempts almost everybody from the estate tax: Unlike the House GOP bill, the final bill does not call for a repeal of the estate tax.

But it essentially eliminates it for all but the smallest number of people by doubling the amount of money exempt from the estate tax -- currently set at $5.49 million for individuals, and $10.98 million for married couples. Even at today's levels, only 0.2% of all estates ever end up being subject to the estate tax.
No prob with that. Only idiots actually pay anything anyway. Ask the Kennedys or check with Hillary to see how she and bill are handling it.
11. Slows inflation adjustments in tax code: The bill would use "chained CPI" to measure inflation, which is a slower measure than is used today. The net effect is your deductions, credits and exemptions will be worth less -- since the inflation adjusted dollars defining eligibility and maximum value would grow more slowly. It also would subject more of your income to higher rates in future years than would be the case under the current code.
Sucks but not Yugely.
12. Eliminates mandate to buy health insurance: There would no longer be a penalty for not buying insurance. While long a goal of Republicans to get rid of it, the measure also would help offset the cost of the tax bill. It is estimated to save money because it would reduce how much the federal government spends on insurance subsidies and Medicaid.

The Congressional Budget Office expects fewer consumers who qualify for subsidies will enroll on the Obamacare exchanges, and fewer people who are eligible for Medicaid will seek coverage and learn they can sign up for the program.

But policy experts also note that the mandate repeal could raise premiums because more healthy people might decide to skip buying insurance.
Every democrat that voted for Obamacare should be dragged out in the back and shot. My bills are obscene.
FOR BUSINESSES AND CORPORATIONS

13. Lowers tax burden on pass-through businesses: The tax burden on owners, partners and shareholders of S-corporations, LLCs and partnerships -- who pay their share of the business' taxes through their individual tax returns -- would be lowered by a 20% deduction, somewhat less than the 23% called for in the Senate-passed bill.

The 20% deduction would be prohibited for anyone in a service business -- unless their taxable income is less than $315,000 if married ($157,500 if single).
I've got an LLC, sounds very good to me. It brings small business rates down to those paid by big corporations. Note this does NOT impact C corps. That is the election for big companies. I see what they did, very good.

14. Includes rule to prevent abuse of pass-through tax break: If the owner or partner in a pass-through also draws a salary from the business, that money would be subject to ordinary income tax rates.

But to prevent people from recharacterizing their wage income as business profits to get the benefit of the pass-through deduction, the bill would place limits on how much income would qualify for the deduction.

Tax experts nevertheless have warned that this kind of anti-abuse measure still presents taxpayers with a lot of opportunities to game the system, and favors passive owners of a business over active owners who actually run things.
I think this is nickles.
15. Slashes corporate rate: The bill cuts the corporate rate to 21% from 35%, starting next year. That's somewhat higher than the 20% called for earlier. The increase was made to free up some revenue to accommodate lawmaker demands on other provisions. The bill would also repeal the alternative minimum tax on corporations.

16. Change how U.S. multinationals are taxed: Today U.S. companies owe Uncle Sam tax on all their profits, regardless of where the income is earned. They're allowed to defer paying U.S. tax on their foreign profits until they bring the money home.

Many argue that this "worldwide" tax system puts American businesses at a disadvantage. That's because most foreign competitors come from countries with territorial tax systems, meaning they don't owe tax to their own governments on income they make offshore.

The final GOP bill proposes switching the U.S. to a territorial system. It also includes a number of anti-abuse provisions to prevent corporations with foreign profits from gaming the system.

In the meantime it would require companies to pay a one-time, low tax rate on their existing overseas profits -- 15.5% on cash assets and 8% on non-cash assets (e.g., equipment abroad in which profits were invested), slightly higher than the rates in the Senate- and House-passed bills.
About fucking time. Thank you Donald et al.
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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by RCC: Act II » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:54 pm

Every democrat that voted for Obamacare should be dragged out in the back and shot. My bills are obscene.
We didn't do this for you. Plus I doubt it comparing to the unknown universe that is what things would be now without Obamacare.

Obamacare itself is a decent template for a healthcare system that had the GOP given a fuck about anything but politics, they would have tweaked to reflect conservative concerns rather than do their normal "sabotage the govt program then claim it doesn't work so we need to repeal it" bullshit that will fuck everyone using insurance. Your premiums are likely going to go up because this bill keeps everything that Obamacare does to increase insurance costs and nothing that it does to reduce them.

The endpoint of a reckless dismantling of the current system is socialized medicine. The political will isn't there yet, but as premiums skyrocket and stories about people dying increase, it will be.

As to the bill, where the working class people get fucked in this is the chained CPI thing that will effectively turn this into a tax increase for them in the next few years. The rest of the tax cuts become irrelevant to them.

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Re: Trump Tax Bill

Post by ed » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:36 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Every democrat that voted for Obamacare should be dragged out in the back and shot. My bills are obscene.
We didn't do this for you. Plus I doubt it comparing to the unknown universe that is what things would be now without Obamacare.

Obamacare itself is a decent template for a healthcare system that had the GOP given a fuck about anything but politics, they would have tweaked to reflect conservative concerns rather than do their normal "sabotage the govt program then claim it doesn't work so we need to repeal it" bullshit that will fuck everyone using insurance. Your premiums are likely going to go up because this bill keeps everything that Obamacare does to increase insurance costs and nothing that it does to reduce them.

The endpoint of a reckless dismantling of the current system is socialized medicine. The political will isn't there yet, but as premiums skyrocket and stories about people dying increase, it will be.

As to the bill, where the working class people get fucked in this is the chained CPI thing that will effectively turn this into a tax increase for them in the next few years. The rest of the tax cuts become irrelevant to them.
I know what I paid then and I know what I pay now. I do not believe in clairvoyance. My bills are more than double. That is not anything other than obamacare.

The purpose of Obamacare was to insure the 10mm that didn't have insurance. To do so they dismantled something that was working. To give coverage for preexisting conditions required a bill shorter than this post. And the cross border preclusion for competition is still there. This stinks of payoff.
Who got what from the industry? That tells the story.
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