News from Sweden

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Grammatron » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:46 pm

Mentat wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Mentat wrote:It's the same story with the irish, catholics, mexicans, chinese, mormons, etc. How many times were we supposed fall apart and be over run by $demographic, and how many times has it actually happened?


When left unchecked, all of the above.

The extreme elements of those communities will grab a foothold and will operate using old-world fears that still linger. That will continue until the government or the communities themselves engage in battle with the extreme elements. There are countless examples in history.


And there are countless examples of false racist hysteria that society will collapse because of those demographics taking over america, and yet here we are.


There are examples of both, I agree. But let's not discount how demographic shaped this country, and not always for the better.

Most censorship legislature, for example, stems from religious busybodies who used demographics to force laws or pressure business with threats of laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... of_Decency
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Mentat » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:56 pm

The closest we came to destroying our country was from a civil war. You know, the one involving the "native" backwards conservative bigots fighting to keep slaves? Slavery justified by looking at other demographics as less than human?
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Grammatron » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:01 pm

Mentat wrote:The closest we came to destroying our country was from a civil war. You know, the one involving the "native" backwards conservative bigots fighting to keep slaves? Slavery justified by looking at other demographics as less than human?


I guess if you are measuring things in civil wars then nothing else counts.

How about other wars? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Mentat » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:10 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Mentat wrote:The closest we came to destroying our country was from a civil war. You know, the one involving the "native" backwards conservative bigots fighting to keep slaves? Slavery justified by looking at other demographics as less than human?


I guess if you are measuring things in civil wars then nothing else counts.


That's the point. The existential threats - one being our civil war, perpetuated by bigots, not the target demographics of the bigots, another being nuclear war - the west has absolutely nothing to do with teh mongrels breeding too fast!!1! Yet that racist call to arms has been pounded on time and time again as the downfall of our western civilization despite the fact is has not happened.

If history is any guide, then we have more to fear from the bigots than the people the bigots cry about.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby gnome » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:20 pm

Regarding "non-assimilationist" were the "natives" so confident that prior immigration waves WERE assimilationist? Or, like now, did they say "not these guys, they're different from when we immigrated. They cling to their culture and won't assimilate" and is the rhetoric we're hearing now any different than what we've heard before?

Is someone arguing that this time the fearmongering is right, unlike the last bunch of times?
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Grammatron » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:21 pm

Mentat wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Mentat wrote:The closest we came to destroying our country was from a civil war. You know, the one involving the "native" backwards conservative bigots fighting to keep slaves? Slavery justified by looking at other demographics as less than human?


I guess if you are measuring things in civil wars then nothing else counts.


That's the point. The existential threats - one being our civil war, perpetuated by bigots, not the target demographics of the bigots, another being nuclear war - the west has absolutely nothing to do with teh mongrels breeding too fast!!1! Yet that racist call to arms has been pounded on time and time again as the downfall of our western civilization despite the fact is has not happened.

If history is any guide, then we have more to fear from the bigots than the people the bigots cry about.


History clearly shows that a sudden and extreme change in demographic leads to conflict.
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Grammatron » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:25 pm

Immigrants from countries that are essentially failed states some times come without understanding the concept of laws and lawful society. There will be an inevitable adjustment period. If you have more immigrants than the system can process you will have situations that range from misunderstandings to outright violent crime. That's not bigotry, that's reality.
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Skeeve » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:34 pm

Giz wrote:
Skeeve wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:However, the Swedish situation cannot be understood entirely in terms of so called "political correctness" or LIBBERULizm. It may be all of that, but only incidentally.
...
Absent Muslim settlers, grass would be growing through cracks in the pavement by now as the indigenous peoples died out without being replaced.

There are some nice data sets here: https://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=27&c=sw&l=en

This is the data for: Net Migration, notice the "surge" from 2013 to 2014...

Code: Select all

Country   2004   2005   2006   2007   2008   2009   2010   2011   2012   2013   2014
Sweden   1.67   1.67   1.66   1.66   1.66   1.66   1.65   1.65   1.65   1.64   5.46

...
And the Total fertility rate (children born/woman)

Code: Select all

Country   2004   2005   2006   2007   2008   2009   2010   2011   2012   2013   2014
Sweden   1.66   1.66   1.66   1.66   1.67   1.67   1.67   1.67   1.67   1.67   1.88

Note:
... Rates above two children indicate populations growing in size and whose median age is declining.
....

After a long period of decline, Sweden is finally starting to approach a rate of 2 again.
However, if you consider who is having the babies, this is not as "Breitbart" as you may think.


From the Guardian (so, impeccably not breitbart): sweden to be 30% muslim soon.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... han-double

...
The Muslim population is also much younger than non-Muslims. The proportion of Muslims under the age of 15 is 27%, nearly double the proportion of under-15 non-Muslims at 15%.

“While Europe’s Muslim population is expected to grow in all three scenarios - and more than double in the medium and high migration scenarios – Europe’s non-Muslims, on the other hand, are projected to decline in total number in each scenario,” says the Pew report.

Historically, a relatively small share of migrants to Europe were refugees from violence or persecution, with most coming for other reasons. Nearly half of all recent migrants to Europe were non-Muslims, with Christians making up the next largest group.

So yea, 30 percent within a few decades, however, what are the "traditional" swedes doing?
They are getting old and dying off.

SO it begs the question, when will a majority population (at least where they live) vote to have their OWN kind of law?
Well according to some rumors, they already are, thus the so called "no-go' zones...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNEZQTSJv4Y
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Mentat » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:41 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Mentat wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Mentat wrote:The closest we came to destroying our country was from a civil war. You know, the one involving the "native" backwards conservative bigots fighting to keep slaves? Slavery justified by looking at other demographics as less than human?


I guess if you are measuring things in civil wars then nothing else counts.


That's the point. The existential threats - one being our civil war, perpetuated by bigots, not the target demographics of the bigots, another being nuclear war - the west has absolutely nothing to do with teh mongrels breeding too fast!!1! Yet that racist call to arms has been pounded on time and time again as the downfall of our western civilization despite the fact is has not happened.

If history is any guide, then we have more to fear from the bigots than the people the bigots cry about.


History clearly shows that a sudden and extreme change in demographic leads to conflict.


Then let's call it a compromise. I'll accept that sudden changes in demographics lead to conflict that destabilize societies, if you accept that bigots who keep crying about other demographics also lead to conflict that destabilize societies.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Rob Lister » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:45 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBewxQUHwvo

I believe her. I care what she says because she is cute. I remain skeptical inasmuch as I can not see her nice butt.

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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Skeeve » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:53 pm

Or if you like a slightly more long winded account, there is this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMfzb1qX0ZA
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Grammatron » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:56 pm

Mentat wrote:Then let's call it a compromise. I'll accept that sudden changes in demographics lead to conflict that destabilize societies, if you accept that bigots who keep crying about other demographics also lead to conflict that destabilize societies.


I agree completely, but the problem is IMHO, without open and frank discussion on this matter it's hard to know if it's bigots spreading ignorance or a demographic conflict brewing.
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Mentat » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:05 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Mentat wrote:Then let's call it a compromise. I'll accept that sudden changes in demographics lead to conflict that destabilize societies, if you accept that bigots who keep crying about other demographics also lead to conflict that destabilize societies.


I agree completely, but the problem is IMHO, without open and frank discussion on this matter it's hard to know if it's bigots spreading ignorance or a demographic conflict brewing.


Frankly speaking, I'm not terribly inclined to take the word of the former about the latter. Particularly when the former is always a problem, and the latter just has the potential to be.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Grammatron » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:12 pm

The former is always going to be an obvious problem, I agree. The latter is a problem you can sometimes only see years/decades later when it's too late.

I am advocating staying vigilant against demographic conflict. But it's hard to do so without appearing like a bigot if frank discussion is off the table.
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Mentat » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:16 pm

"Being frank" isn't a get out of jail free card.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Skeeve » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:17 pm

Rob Lister wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBewxQUHwvo

I believe her. I care what she says because she is cute. I remain skeptical inasmuch as I can not see her nice butt.


about 3 min in: "Refugees might not be able to "handle the alcohol" and simply feel "horny" and have "ignorance of the consequences for the girls."

Oh, after that there is an (alleged) actual rape shown...

Yes, a success, a flaming success!
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Grammatron » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:20 pm

Mentat wrote:"Being frank" isn't a get out of jail free card.


I am not sure I understand what you mean.
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Mentat » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:34 pm

Bigotry doesn't arise from the language you use.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Grammatron » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:40 pm

Mentat wrote:Bigotry doesn't arise from the language you use.


Bigotry is just ignorance that is sometimes willful ignorance backed by junk science. The frank discussion I propose evaluates the science to see if it's junk.

Take sometimes like 9/11 conspiracies and the junk science it relies on. Once you know the science is junk the conspiracy is junk by default. But, if the science was real one would have to follow it to wherever it leads even if it's uncomfortable (just to be clear, no I don't believe in 9/11 garbage conspiracies just using this as analogy).
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Re: News from Sweeden

Postby Mentat » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:41 pm

Then be frank.
It's "pea-can", man.

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