Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by RCC: Act II » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:23 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
It's that the folks at Facebook convinced themselves that they were inadvertently doing mind control, but their first experiment of doing it on purpose failed.
Do you operate on the epistemological assumption that there is no such thing as objective truth?

Like if person A makes a claim of fact, it is impossible to establish this claim as false because any attempt to do so involves making a claim that can never be more or less intrinsically true than the original claim.

That is the only way I can make sense (ignoring this mind control bullshit) of what you seem to be saying... and it also more and more seems to be the principle that governs most political thinking.

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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by ed » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:28 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
ed wrote:How do we know that they worked to help Trump?




Who do you think is more open to a bribe?
Doesn't matter, and has nothing to do with what I am posting. Hillary Clinton could be a North Korean agent that eats children, and Bill could have raped a whole busload of nuns while posting every national security secret he knows on facebook. Has nothing to do with any of this.
I know, that was a bit of post-xmas troling. Sorry

regarding this...
[/quote] The source and content makes the intention clear. The effect it has is irrelevant.
Not at all clear. If I were trying to impact the election and I was a paid provocateur on behalf of the Clinton Family Business, I'd do transparent stuff that looked like it supported Trump thus making Hillary appear to be more sympathetic. Essy-peesy. Would not be surprised if that is exactly what happened. That would make the most sense and, as I suggested, the Russkies owed obama/clinton.
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by gnome » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:29 pm

Abdul, please. Facebook's attempt could be a textbook definition of a reasonable response. They didn't mark claims as "false" only "disputed". Their message wasn't "don't listen to these guys" but "look closer". That's the opposite of "control"--suggesting people to be more skeptical of claims.

Control is easier where facts don't matter. FB was trying to inject some interest in facts. Didn't work too well, they're trying a different approach that is working better.
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by gnome » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:30 pm

I'm actually kind of intrigued by the Trumpian "fakenews" backlash on mainstream media. Some of it comes from earned distrust. Of course, he himself just uses it against anything he doesn't like.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by ed » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:49 pm

gnome wrote:Trumpian "fakenews" backlash
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by RCC: Act II » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:51 pm

ed wrote:
regarding this...
The source and content makes the intention clear. The effect it has is irrelevant.
Not at all clear. If I were trying to impact the election and I was a paid provocateur on behalf of the Clinton Family Business, I'd do transparent stuff that looked like it supported Trump thus making Hillary appear to be more sympathetic. Essy-peesy. Would not be surprised if that is exactly what happened. That would make the most sense and, as I suggested, the Russkies owed obama/clinton.
No problem with the trolling...

It did to a degree in the sense that there are facebook pages that we now know as Russian that were meant to be seen as supporting black lives matter but were pretty transparent due to both making absurd claims and, more obviously, the hilarity of native Russian speakers living in Russia trying to sound like what they imagine black people sound like.

Pro-Trump Russia stuff is beyond what can be reasonably disputed. Maybe other Russians were pro-Hillary, I dunno, and like I said, not really the point.

The question is whether the Trump campaign coordinated Russian involvement. This is only really worth looking into because he's the President and this creates at least the appearance of a national security issue.

When Trump was running, one of the non-policy concerns I had with him is that there is no sign whatsoever that he is capable of allowing independent scrutiny of his actions without losing his goddamn mind. I figured that would be when he would say fuck it and quit. Instead, he's attacking the concept of independent scrutiny itself, and an alarming number of people are following him down that rabbit hole.

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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by gnome » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:21 pm

In retrospect that's not surprising. That's going to be people that don't ever want it.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:33 pm

I don't get that anyone can even pretend that tiny-dollar ads, regardless of source, could impact an election. It is stupid to argue. Billions to 10's of thousands. Just stupid.

Most polls had her at 90%. That is the place to put your bitch. It was obviously not true.

It was a crooked campaign by crooked people with crooked polls for a dubious and utterly unlikable candidate. Blaming it on anything else is silly.

The DNC elected trump.

The RNC was negligent in not fixing their nomination similarly. Pence would have made a decent loser to any other Dem.
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by gnome » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:37 pm

I don't know how much effect it really had on the election, but I have seen firsthand the impact of bombardment by questionable infographics have had on people's opinions that I know. They start repeating info from them when they argue.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by RCC: Act II » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:44 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Most polls had her at 90%. That is the place to put your bitch. It was obviously not true.
.
Probability fail.

Betting markets suggested more like 80%. Silver was more 65% or so. Even at 90%, shit happens. Sometimes the inside straight comes in.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with anything re: the Russian involvement issue.

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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:05 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
Most polls had her at 90%. That is the place to put your bitch. It was obviously not true.
.
Probability fail.

Betting markets suggested more like 80%. Silver was more 65% or so. Even at 90%, shit happens. Sometimes the inside straight comes in.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with anything re: the Russian involvement issue.
Bullshit. These are presumably polls. Not one but 1000's. That is made up shit. These were not odds. These were opinions. Wrongly taken, obviously, in some manner. They may equate to odds but that is utterly beside the point. They were wrong. Criminally so but there is no law against it.

It has nothing to do with the Russian involvement. It's a fucking [poor, lame, stupid] excuse for losing.

If the idiot trump can beat the crook hillary, whose fault is it?

Ours. Let's take responsibility. Next time nominate crooks that are more likable or idiots that are smarter.

Next time nominate people that are smart and honest.

Hey! The space cadet Perot [that is NOT the right question!] proved that a third choice exists. If he wasn't a space cadet he would have won.
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by RCC: Act II » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:27 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Bullshit. These are presumably polls. Not one but 1000's. That is made up shit.
The polls didn't have her with 90% of the vote, that would be really stupid.

538 had Clinton a 2-1 favorite.
PEC had Clinton a 50-1 favorite
Betting markets were trading at election day at 4-1

The PEC had flaws that were explained by 538, most notably that PEC treated crucial states as independent events, which isn't how it works.

Again, those that see a 4-1, 2-1, or even 50-1 as things that never happen are welcome at my poker table, except that they are the ones that always think they are cheated... so maybe not.

It has nothing to do with the Russian involvement. It's a fucking [poor, lame, stupid] excuse for losing.
Keep repeating that to yourself. I don't think I can drink cool-aid fast enough to buy that this investigation run by a career decorated law enforcement officer who is a Republican is all about being a sore loser about an election won by a Republican... but here we are.

I'm not sure it could be any clearer that Facebook's thing or this investigation is not about proving Hillary would have won.

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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by Doctor X » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:30 pm

About that not checking Goodell's cell phone. . . .

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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:09 am

gnome wrote:Abdul, please. Facebook's attempt could be a textbook definition of a reasonable response. ...
Completely logical given insane premises.

OK so they they stopped that one when the evidences were in.

But they evidently still think that "responsible" means beneficial mind control and they will keep trying.
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:10 am

Hey gnome!

Ever see the movie The President's Analyst? :coolspecs:
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by gnome » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:02 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
gnome wrote:Abdul, please. Facebook's attempt could be a textbook definition of a reasonable response. ...
Completely logical given insane premises.

OK so they they stopped that one when the evidences were in.

But they evidently still think that "responsible" means beneficial mind control and they will keep trying.
Where does the "control" come in? Usually control involves limiting what information someone gets, not offering more and suggesting a critical examination.

Unless you are defining all attempts at persuasion to be mind control, which is not a very useful definition.
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:15 am

gnome wrote:Where does the "control" come in? Usually control involves limiting what information someone gets, not offering more and suggesting a critical examination.
There is no such thing as mind control. It's like Bigfoot.

1) What they are doing doesn't work.

2) They think it does.
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:11 pm

Update:

Former president Barack Obama indicates he believes in mind control:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCifdlnrlXo

Interviewed by his fellow royal Prince Harry.
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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:51 pm

Update: Person on internet uses an absurdly expanded definition of a pejorative term to include something and then implies that that thing shares all the negative qualities of the term as used in a narrower sense.

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Re: Facebook is scrapping its system of flagging fake news because it had 'the opposite effect to what we intended'

Post by corplinx » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:16 pm

Basically, one year later the Democrat led FAKENEWS!!! moral panic has backfired so spectacularly that even Facebook has given up on the token effort to "combat this plague!".