Military action in North Korea: yes or no

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Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by ed » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:06 am

Exclusive: US making plans for 'bloody nose’ military attack on North Korea

America is drawing up plans for a “bloody nose” military attack on North Korea to stop its nuclear weapons programme, The Telegraph understands.

The White House has “dramatically” stepped up preparation for a military solution in recent months amid fears diplomacy is not working, well-placed sources said.

One option is destroying a launch site before it is used by the regime for a new missile test. Stockpiles of weapons could also be targete

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12 ... ack-north/

I wonder whether the talk of military action is simply clickbait or whether it reflects a real possibility.
Last edited by ed on Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:14 am

The Trump Policy of the Fuck You Idea.

Possibly a "false flag" ruse to put a little scare into NK without actually doing anything, or to goad NK into a first strike that would be followed by obliteration after 20 years of war.

All that stuff looks like what one might expect of a military action. What they really need to hit are the supply lines that lead to his dining table. Cut off his gourmet food and he'll be begging to get rid of his nukes.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by WildCat » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:37 pm

Pyrrho wrote:The Trump Policy of the Fuck You Idea.

Possibly a "false flag" ruse to put a little scare into NK without actually doing anything, or to goad NK into a first strike that would be followed by obliteration after 20 years of war.

All that stuff looks like what one might expect of a military action. What they really need to hit are the supply lines that lead to his dining table. Cut off his gourmet food and he'll be begging to get rid of his nukes.
Or a message to China to make them do something before we do.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:46 pm

Would be a shame if a few of NK's navy vessels had accidents.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:02 pm

Remember the Cheonan
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:11 pm

Really though, you don't "bloody a nose".

If you need to shoot, you shoot. You don't talk.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:15 pm

[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by RCC: Act II » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:30 pm

ed wrote:
I wonder whether the talk of military action is simply clickbait or whether it reflects a real possibility.
Probably both. The only thing I'm reasonably sure of is that any approach to dealing with North Korea is just clicking random buttons. A solid case can be made that every possible option could end in an equal disaster.


So while potential outcomes could be dire, worrying about what to do is like worrying whether to call heads or tails on a coin flip just because the stakes are really high.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:56 pm

There's not going to be any strike on Dark Korea without a significant build up of ground troops first. So significant, we'd be hearing about it all day every day. We aren't. So clickbait.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by RCC: Act II » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:12 pm

Rob Lister wrote:There's not going to be any strike on Dark Korea without a significant build up of ground troops first. So significant, we'd be hearing about it all day every day. We aren't. So clickbait.
Well, at least one that isn't stupid. Trump is the kind of guy that seems to value surprise over decent sense.

I hate Trump/Hitler comparisons, but the one thing that strikes me as worrisome is my suspicion that Trump shares the willingness to both flat deny logistical reality when it comes to military matters and ignore sound advice as to same. Just seems like something he'd do. Maybe just me.

I long before realized that the final line of defense between us and true madness is the quality of education at our military academies... and that is way less theoretical than I'd like.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:23 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:There's not going to be any strike on Dark Korea without a significant build up of ground troops first. So significant, we'd be hearing about it all day every day. We aren't. So clickbait.
Well, at least one that isn't stupid. Trump is the kind of guy that seems to value surprise over decent sense.

I hate Trump/Hitler comparisons, but the one thing that strikes me as worrisome is my suspicion that Trump shares the willingness to both flat deny logistical reality when it comes to military matters and ignore sound advice as to same. Just seems like something he'd do. Maybe just me.

I long before realized that the final line of defense between us and true madness is the quality of education at our military academies... and that is way less theoretical than I'd like.
You're right of course. If you look up 'LOOSE CANNON" in the dictionary they've got a little inset pic of Trump. OTOH, if Eisenhower had finished the fucking job we'd be bitching about something else right now. But no, he kicked what he thought was a small can down the road. Now it's a big fucking can that ain't so kickable.

So if we do, or do not, go in, I'm okay with either. And neither. Depends on my mood.

Hey! Let's start small not with a bloody nose but a bloody ego. Let's demand the return of the USS Pueblo. While it sits there at a dock off their capital as a showpiece, it is likely unmovable. It is probably on blocks. We demand the return to international waters by 3:00 pm Friday or we will utterly destroy it where it sits. We give prior notice.

Then we actually do it.

That should suffice to start the can rolling.

Needless to say, the actual "do it" part is important.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:27 am

Eisenhower did finish the job.

No problems for another 40 years or so. Not bad considering the Soviet deterrent at the time.

Or do you blame Eisenhower for not foreseeing the fall of the Soviet Union?
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:34 am

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:35 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Eisenhower did finish the job.

No problems for another 40 years or so. Not bad considering the Soviet deterrent at the time.

Or do you blame Eisenhower for not foreseeing the fall of the Soviet Union?
Yea, hindsight sucks.

He was the first of many can-kickers. Each and every one past Carter saw the nuclear threat. Each kicked the can.

Reagan admin 1 and 2 saw it and ignored it.
Bush Sr. admin 1 saw it and ignored it.
Clinton admin 1 and 2 saw it and ignored it
Bush admin 1 and 2 saw it and ignored it (admittedly he was busy fighting made up shit).
Obama admin 1 and 2 saw it and ignored it (there's really no excuse there).

Now Trump.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:45 am

The best way is diplomacy.

Not with Kim. With the Chinese.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:49 am

Yea. How's that working out for you?

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:06 am

It's what Trump is doing and nobody been nuked yet. :)

I do not believe the Chinese want this trouble. They just need to find a way that preserves historical prestige.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:24 am

Rob Lister wrote:There's not going to be any strike on Dark Korea without a significant build up of ground troops first. So significant, we'd be hearing about it all day every day. We aren't. So clickbait.
I've wondered about that. Presumably the "element of surprise" isn't as important as having all the right military things in place first.

Also, there's the possible upside that by preparing to invade them, he might suddenly become much more open to a negotiated solution.

This idea of "let's just give them a bloody nose (or ego) to show him we mean business", it would just be a prelude to a real conflict in any case.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:48 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:There's not going to be any strike on Dark Korea without a significant build up of ground troops first. So significant, we'd be hearing about it all day every day. We aren't. So clickbait.
I've wondered about that. Presumably the "element of surprise" isn't as important as having all the right military things in place first.

Also, there's the possible upside that by preparing to invade them, he might suddenly become much more open to a negotiated solution.

This idea of "let's just give them a bloody nose (or ego) to show him we mean business", it would just be a prelude to a real conflict in any case.
I would say that the "element of surprise" no longer exists. How could it?

That kind of thing makes me want to tell sea stories that could not possibly have happened.

And probably never did.

Long short is that there's a medium that is better reached by people better than me and result in me bitching either way.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:39 am

I saw this news story the other day (yesterday I think), but didn't think too much about it. A military "hotline" between the US and China seemed like a very reasonable thing to me.

Washington and Beijing to establish military hotline on N. Korea
SEOUL, South Korea, Dec. 25 (UPI) -- Washington and Beijing have agreed to install a military hotline for emergency talks on North Korea, according to the Asahi Shimbun on Monday.

U.S. President Donald Trump and his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping last month exchanged their views on how to deal with the North Korea nuclear crisis, the Japanese daily reported, citing Washington officials.

During their bilateral summit in Beijing, Trump and Xi reportedly agreed that North Korea will never be accepted as a nuclear state and that international pressure must continue until the regime gives up its nuclear ambition.

As a means of cooperation, the two heads of state decided to establish a direct line of communication between the United States Forces Korea based in Seoul and China's army base in Shenyang, an eastern city that borders North Korea.

They also agreed to hold regular high-level meetings between military and intelligence officials to share information on Pyongyang's nuclear and missile program as well as the impact of sanctions on the North Korean economy.

China pledged to update Washington on its progress of enforcing sanctions on the regime through various financial authorities every few months.

According to the paper, the two sides also planned to discuss contingency measures such as dealing with the North's nuclear weapons and the possible outbreak of a refugee crisis upon conflict with the North or the collapse of the Kim Jong Un regime.

While Washington agreed to take more prudent steps in terms of military drills against the North, and "showed understanding" toward a "dialogue-based solution," the paper reported that the U.S.-China partnership may waver if Beijing doesn't provide sufficient information on its sanctions on the North.
Anyway, now comes Chinese news claiming that this is "fake news" fabricated by the Japanese with malicious intent:

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1082221.shtml
One of Japan's so-called leading newspapers ran a story on Monday. It claims that multiple US government sources revealed China and the US are planning to establish a military hotline between the Northern Theater Command in Shenyang, Liaoning Province, and US forces in Seoul, South Korea to handle the Korean Peninsula.

A Global Times investigation showed the Japanese news report to be nothing more than a product of pure imagination.

It is not unreasonable to think that Japan is capable of publishing and fomenting fake news with malicious intent.

As everybody knows, China has always remained opposed to conflict of any kind on the Korean Peninsula. To fabricate a story about a "military hotline" between China and US military forces at such a sensitive time only complicates the situation even more. This fake story sends the wrong signal to the world as it implies China believes war on the Peninsula is inevitable and by cooperating with the US it is, therefore, preparing to engage in military conflict.

One of the real purposes of the fake news story is to distance bilateral relations between China and North Korea.

China voted in favor of the recent sanctions against North Korea because of repeated violations of UN Security Council measures regarding their missile and nuclear programs. China will never agree to actions that could have negative consequences such as endangering the lives of North Korean citizens, or a regime overthrow, or any military manipulation for purposes of changing the country's political landscape. And now we have Japanese media trying to create an illusion that China will somehow become America's ally on North Korea. The ultimate goal of such an action is to get Pyongyang and Beijing to turn on one another.

The fraudulent information spread by Japanese media was also an attempt to create an air of mistrust between China and South Korea, thwarting bilateral development.

South Korean President Moon Jae-in's recent visit to China eased mutual misunderstanding between the two nations. In fact, they have both confirmed their common interests over a peaceful solution on North Korea. But if China and the US established a military command hotline, South Korea would think that China has gone behind their back in working directly with the US, therefore creating a foundation of mistrust.

China is not the only country affected by this "military hotline" story as Japanese media has set a trap for Russia. Should the US decide to provoke war, China and Russia would be two key factors Washington would have to confront. And obviously, Russia would feel insulted by the establishment of a Sino-US "military hotline."

Of course, it is too early to tell how the recent round of sanctions will impact North Korea. The Pyeongchang Winter Olympics are only six weeks away, and South Korea has asked for US forces to postpone all joint-military drills.

The entire world is aware of the powder keg that has come to represent the Korean Peninsula situation. Seizing upon opportunities that help bring peace and calm to the region is at the very least humanitarian.

Creating the illusion of potential warfare was a despicable act by Japanese media on Christmas Day no less.
On Christmas Day no less!!! :x (since when was Christmas Day particularly significant to Chinese Communists? :notsure: )

Anyway. Just goes to show how much anti-Japanese sentiment there still is.
Analysts have said that Japan would benefit the most if a war breaks out on the Korean peninsula.
That is nuts, quite frankly. Japan just doesn't want to be attacked. This is like some kind of pre-WW2 view where wars in other countries somehow benefit a third country.
Tokyo would stand to make a fortune, something they could use now in their time of economic woes. Plus, media provocations provide Japan with further reason to improve their wartime readiness.
:roll:

FWIW:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Times
The Global Times (simplified Chinese: 环球时报; traditional Chinese: 寰球時報; pinyin: Huánqiú Shíbào) is a daily Chinese tabloid newspaper under the auspices of the People's Daily newspaper, focusing on international issues from a communist Chinese perspective.[1][2] The Global Times differentiates itself from other Chinese newspapers in part through its more populist approach to journalism, coupled with a tendency to court controversy.[3]

Editorial stance

Although the Chinese-language version has been accused of having a strong pro-government slant,[6] and of attracting a strongly nationalistic readership,[3][10] the English-language version has been described by one of its editors as taking a less strident approach.[11] The English-language edition also contains approximately 20 "foreign experts", who are involved with assigning stories and copyediting, "as long as the coverage is not about politics".[12]
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