Military action in North Korea: yes or no

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by ed » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:00 am

And, lo, the can, wont to be kicked, is kickethed once again.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:05 am

Lol

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nort ... SKBN1EZ09W

SEOUL (Reuters) - South Korean President Moon Jae-in credited U.S. President Donald Trump on Wednesday for helping to spark the first inter-Korean talks in more than two years, and warned that Pyongyang would face stronger sanctions if provocations continued.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Doctor X » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:36 am

Indeed.

It is like a very bad screen writer is behind this.

If Reagan was the "Teflon President," Trump is the "Corbomite President."

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:29 am

I don't care if Trump gets credit or not, but I have my doubts that North Korea is acting in good faith. (Understatement of the year)
I think they are just being Machiavellian, i.e. "employing cunning and duplicity in statecraft." They will "come to the negotiating table" when it suits their purposes, but in the meantime their nuclear weapons and missile development programs proceed apace. This buys them more time to continue to make progress. They may need to postpone tests for the time being, but those can be resumed the instant they have what they they wanted.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Doctor X » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:11 am

Anaxagoras wrote:I don't care if Trump gets credit or not, but I have my doubts that North Korea is acting in good faith. (Understatement of the year)


Why do you hate Peace, Anax?
Image

Certainly, the Lone Fat Boy in North Korea will try to play this up now that the sanctions are actually working. It is, and ever was, a game to him and his family. A game of survival:
Image

The Point is to keep the game against his favor which includes not letting him keep his nucler [Stop that.--Ed.] weapons.

--J.D.

P.S. In the:
Image
rain.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Mentat » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:17 pm

How many times have we been through this? Norks get pissy, make threats, standoff, try to make concessions in exchange for some deal, go quiet for a while, rinse lather repeat.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:21 pm

at least a dozen. kick the can.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:17 pm

Nobody nuked yet, so it's all good. :)

And after all, I lived through The Big One TM. :oldman:

That is The Cold War, of course. :P

And never had to kiss my ass goodbye. :BigGrin3:
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:40 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:I don't care if Trump gets credit or not, but I have my doubts that North Korea is acting in good faith. (Understatement of the year)
I think they are just being Machiavellian, i.e. "employing cunning and duplicity in statecraft." They will "come to the negotiating table" when it suits their purposes, but in the meantime their nuclear weapons and missile development programs proceed apace. This buys them more time to continue to make progress. They may need to postpone tests for the time being, but those can be resumed the instant they have what they they wanted.

"Peace for our time"


I agree with your sentiment. What I do find interesting and "lol" worthy is the fact that South Korean President Moon Jae-in gave Trump both credit and an out. If North Korea continues on their peaceful course Trump gets credit; If North Korea walks away, President Moon warned North Korea of more sanctions and Trump gets an out.

This all runs counter to the media narrative saying Trump is starting a war.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by gnome » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:50 pm

I'm going to completely make up a narrative right now, and wonder what people think of it:

NK, knowing thinking SK is worried about trump, is leaning on SK now for an agreement, that they expect to be more favorable because SK is worried.

Kind of an inversion of the idea that Trump's apparent instability is benefiting us.

I don't claim this is true, just considering the plausibility of it.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:53 pm

I'm going with zombie lizards from Planet X.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Mentat » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:54 pm

Credit is due when either the cycle is broken - which it ain't - or when Kim cancels their nuclear program. Until then, this is just Kim playing the same old game.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:55 pm

Mentat wrote:Credit is due when either the cycle is broken - which it ain't - or when Kim cancels their nuclear program. Until then, this is just Kim playing the same old game.


Then Trump is not provoking anyone and the media is being pointlessly hostile against Trump.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Mentat » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:03 pm

Whether or not Trump is reckless is a different story than what Kim's doing. For a dictator to survive, they must appear powerful and in charge of the situation. That's what this whole nuclear fiasco is all about. That's not to say he wouldn't do something very dangerous or even risk an attack. The only skin a tyrant cares about is his own, and that may mean incinerating millions. We - the world - have to be damn careful that's not his best move. And that requires strategy, planning, and patience. None of which Trump has shown a knack for.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:07 pm

Mentat wrote:Whether or not Trump is reckless is a different story than what Kim's doing.

South Korean president just said Trump is not reckless when it comes to North Korea and put the onus completely on Kim.
For a dictator to survive, they must appear powerful and in charge of the situation. That's what this whole nuclear fiasco is all about. That's not to say he wouldn't do something very dangerous or even risk an attack. The only skin a tyrant cares about is his own, and that may mean incinerating millions. We - the world - have to be damn careful that's not his best move. And that requires strategy, planning, and patience. None of which Trump has shown a knack for.


Who has a knack for it, Bill Clinton? George Bush? Barack Obama?
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:53 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Mentat wrote:Whether or not Trump is reckless is a different story than what Kim's doing.

South Korean president just said Trump is not reckless when it comes to North Korea and put the onus completely on Kim.
For a dictator to survive, they must appear powerful and in charge of the situation. That's what this whole nuclear fiasco is all about. That's not to say he wouldn't do something very dangerous or even risk an attack. The only skin a tyrant cares about is his own, and that may mean incinerating millions. We - the world - have to be damn careful that's not his best move. And that requires strategy, planning, and patience. None of which Trump has shown a knack for.


Who has a knack for it, Bill Clinton? George Bush? Barack Obama?


Bush sr? Reagan? Carter?

Everybody has kicked the can.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by gnome » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:00 pm

It's hard to blame any President; it's a tough scenario.

During the Cold War, acting unilaterally would seriously risk a nuclear conflict with China, and possibly broader by the nature of the nuclear standoffs going on at the time.

The more time passes, the better NK gets at its own nuclear program, and presumably the risk of retaliation from China reduces? With the second part of that still iffy IMO, how do we find the point of least risk?
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:11 pm

Some have suggested a bloody nose.

Others suggest to hang very tightly to the sanctions in place. Do not give in until the nuclear program is dismantled utterly. That was never done in the past. They came briefly to the table and we gave in and they went right back to what they were doing before. Not time after time after time but time after time after time after time after time; since Carter when the nuclear program started. And time after time after time before that back to the 50's.

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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:14 pm

I'm not blaming any president, I was just commenting on Mentat's observation that Trump does not have knack for "strategy, planning, and patience" by asking which president had such a knack.
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Re: Military action in North Korea: yes or no

Post by Mentat » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:06 am

Grammatron wrote:
Mentat wrote:Whether or not Trump is reckless is a different story than what Kim's doing.

South Korean president just said Trump is not reckless when it comes to North Korea and put the onus completely on Kim.
For a dictator to survive, they must appear powerful and in charge of the situation. That's what this whole nuclear fiasco is all about. That's not to say he wouldn't do something very dangerous or even risk an attack. The only skin a tyrant cares about is his own, and that may mean incinerating millions. We - the world - have to be damn careful that's not his best move. And that requires strategy, planning, and patience. None of which Trump has shown a knack for.


Who has a knack for it, Bill Clinton? George Bush? Barack Obama?


All four had more than Trump.
It's "pea-can", man.

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