Govenment Regulations

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Govenment Regulations

Postby ed » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:29 am

I bitched on another thread about the government "helping" and lo and behold, the NYT runs a piece entitled:

When Picking Apples on a Farm With 5,000 Rules, Watch Out for the Ladders


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/busi ... -news&_r=0

Yes, more government is a good thing ...
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby ed » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:41 am

The Trump Effect: Business, Anticipating Less Regulation, Loosens Purse Strings

By Binyamin Appelbaum ) and Jim Tankersley

Jan. 1, 2018
WASHINGTON — A wave of optimism has swept over American business leaders, and it is beginning to translate into the sort of investment in new plants, equipment and factory upgrades that bolsters economic growth, spurs job creation — and may finally raise wages significantly.

While business leaders are eager for the tax cuts that take effect this year, the newfound confidence was initially inspired by the Trump administration’s regulatory pullback, not so much because deregulation is saving companies money but because the administration has instilled a faith in business executives that new regulations are not coming.

“It’s an overall sense that you’re not going to face any new regulatory fights,” said Granger MacDonald, a home builder in Kerrville, Tex. “We’re not spending more, which is the main thing. We’re not seeing any savings, but we’re not seeing any increases.”




By Binyamin Appelbaum (<---Jew so he knows this stuff) and Jim Tankersley(<--- unknown but probably jewish) Ergo this article has the seal of approval, thus:
Star_of_David 1.jpg


Any article on financial matters in the Times that are approving of Trump get this distinction and can be cited as TRVTH
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:21 pm

Aw c'mon ed. The NYT?

It's lies of the capitalist press ... uh ... I mean LIBBERUL media bias ... uh ... diverting attention from the depredations of the Mexican phone company. :BigGrin3:
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby RCC: Act II » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:05 pm

ed wrote:
The Trump Effect: Business, Anticipating Less Regulation, Loosens Purse Strings

By Binyamin Appelbaum ) and Jim Tankersley

Jan. 1, 2018
WASHINGTON — A wave of optimism has swept over American business leaders, and it is beginning to translate into the sort of investment in new plants, equipment and factory upgrades that bolsters economic growth, spurs job creation — and may finally raise wages significantly.

While business leaders are eager for the tax cuts that take effect this year, the newfound confidence was initially inspired by the Trump administration’s regulatory pullback, not so much because deregulation is saving companies money but because the administration has instilled a faith in business executives that new regulations are not coming.

“It’s an overall sense that you’re not going to face any new regulatory fights,” said Granger MacDonald, a home builder in Kerrville, Tex. “We’re not spending more, which is the main thing. We’re not seeing any savings, but we’re not seeing any increases.”




By Binyamin Appelbaum (<---Jew so he knows this stuff) and Jim Tankersley(<--- unknown but probably jewish) Ergo this article has the seal of approval, thus:Star_of_David 1.jpg

Any article on financial matters in the Times that are approving of Trump get this distinction and can be cited as TRVTH


The idea that removing regulations will assist business growth borders on the tautological. The question is whether doing so removes important public protections to a significant degree. Removing administrative costs is an absolute good; it is whether this simply allows business to externalize the costs of the damage they create that is the question worth asking.

I'm all for the principle that those that make these rules should be just as aggressive at removing regulations that have no purpose as they are at identifying new problems, but in some sort of measured fashion.

They need some sort of independent regulatory "absurdity court" where businesses can contest application of regulations that are just goddamn stupid or unreasonably burdensome and get them struck or at least modified. Something to counterbalance the administrative impulse to make categorical rules about everything even if it really isn't much of a problem.

The whole concept of using positive law (statutes, regulations, etc.) to address the details of enforcing public policy is inherently and profoundly flawed, but that is a larger issue.

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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby ed » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:44 pm

The idea that removing regulations will assist business growth borders on the tautological.


Why so? If I can injection mould stuff here rather than china that is a good thing, right?
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:05 pm

In my opinion the question is not primarily "amount" of regulations, as if regulations were some homogeneous liquid to be poured in by Democrats and drained off by Republicans.

While I do concede that there really is such a thing as "overregulation", the main issue is good or bad regulation.
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby RCC: Act II » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:43 pm

ed wrote:
The idea that removing regulations will assist business growth borders on the tautological.


Why so? If I can injection mould stuff here rather than china that is a good thing, right?


Tautological? I'm just saying that reducing regs is pretty much going to help business about the same as how something being a triangle pretty much has three sides.

As to the general point, not really. If it is cheaper in China because the Chinese don't care about their drinking water or employees losing limbs or whatever, I'm not in favor of joining that race to the bottom.

To be blunt, I don't mind using the rest of the world as a cheap labor farm, just that for a whole bunch of reasons the spoils of this arrangement should be distributed more evenly, mostly because I'm all for this arrangement to continue and it wasn't the people who built the supply chains that ultimately created this. Let these other countries make our shit and use some of the profits to use the resulting excess manpower in some constructive way. Fund more technological research and make damn sure the American university system is where the smart people want to come to create innovation. Build infrastructure like a completely clean power grid and a better internet. Etc.

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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby ed » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:28 pm

I like employing americans at the expense of foreign fuckers.

but that is because I am a patriot. Unlike some I could mention.

Here is the deal.

Humans are animals.

If bureaucrats are paid to issue rules and regulations and are rewarded for doing same guess what happens? You get ever increasing numbers of regulations whoseThat is because "quality" does not enter into the equation. You have a vast number of people in these government agencies, half of whom have below average intelligence. Are they incented for good regulations? Are there modes for evaluating them? Is there a sunset provision for shitty ones?

No no no no
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:44 pm

:popping: :popping:

India factor making walmart socks burns down, 50 kids killed.

The great debate.

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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:05 pm

ed wrote:If bureaucrats are paid to issue rules and regulations and are rewarded for doing same guess what happens? ...


Fallacy.

They are paid to enforce regulations.

They are not paid piecework for the number of regulations.
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby ed » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:14 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
ed wrote:If bureaucrats are paid to issue rules and regulations and are rewarded for doing same guess what happens? ...


Fallacy.

They are paid to enforce regulations.

They are not paid piecework for the number of regulations.


Sure they are you itinerant, obsessive wanker.

The bureaucrats write rules. The enforcement arm enforces. Do I have to spell it out for you? Jesus christ risen.
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby RCC: Act II » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:14 pm

ed wrote:I like employing americans at the expense of foreign fuckers.

but that is because I am a patriot. Unlike some I could mention.

It isn't either/or.

I'm gonna guess that a shitload of what you do is a result of foreign manufacturing of some sort down the line, unless you are making everything, including office stuff, from scratch. Even if it didn't, it profits in some way from the labor pool not being used to manufacture everything we use.

The problem isn't that we make things overseas, the problem is that we don't use the gains in a way that better benefits the country as a whole. Manufacturing jobs should be shipped off if that is more efficient, just that the surplus labor force that leaves needs to be retrained and used productively. A lot of this happens naturally, but we don't think in these terms so we wind up with people whining that the mill closed rather than being paid decently to build infrastructure and other internal projects.






If bureaucrats are paid to issue rules and regulations and are rewarded for doing same guess what happens? You get ever increasing numbers of regulations whoseThat is because "quality" does not enter into the equation. You have a vast number of people in these government agencies, half of whom have below average intelligence. Are they incented for good regulations? Are there modes for evaluating them? Is there a sunset provision for shitty ones?

No no no no


Yeah, I said as much a few posts up.

They need some sort of independent regulatory "absurdity court" where businesses can contest application of regulations that are just goddamn stupid or unreasonably burdensome and get them struck or at least modified. Something to counterbalance the administrative impulse to make categorical rules about everything even if it really isn't much of a problem.

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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby ed » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:15 pm

We agree.

And I make my own staples.
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby RCC: Act II » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:18 pm

ed wrote:
Sure they are you itinerant, obsessive wanker.

The bureaucrats write rules. The enforcement arm enforces. Do I have to spell it out for you? Jesus christ risen.


It is in part what you are saying re: incentives, and partly the deeper issue that the whole concept of micromanaging public policy with positive law is madness.

Mostly the incentive. It isn't like they are being paid by the reg, just that they need to justify their existence to keep their budgets and ultimately their jobs. That means drafting regulations no matter the actual need.

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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby ed » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:39 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
ed wrote:
Sure they are you itinerant, obsessive wanker.

The bureaucrats write rules. The enforcement arm enforces. Do I have to spell it out for you? Jesus christ risen.


It is in part what you are saying re: incentives, and partly the deeper issue that the whole concept of micromanaging public policy with positive law is madness.

Mostly the incentive. It isn't like they are being paid by the reg, just that they need to justify their existence to keep their budgets and ultimately their jobs. That means drafting regulations no matter the actual need.


nononononono

The micromanaging is an effect, not a cause.

Look at this this way ...

You have the office of land management as part of the department of the interior. Injuns and the like.
They have a mission statement:
To develop and exploit our precious resources for the betterment of all and particularly mother Gaia.


There is enabling legislation, written by half drunk congressmen that says, in effect:
To develop and exploit our precious resources for the betterment of all and particularly mother Gaia.


It goes on to say:
the appropriate agencies will develop rules and standards in order to actualize this half assed law


Cool. I am in charge of this arm of the will of the american people. Now, I know that my boss has been diddling his secretary and I am biding my time before I blow the whistle on him. Meanwhile I need to look good. Well, I do my job which as it's own mission statement:
develop rules and standards in order to develop and exploit our precious resources for the betterment of all and particularly mother Gaia.


Easy-peesey. We need some rules here. I call my staff into my office and say "Mother Gaia is weeeping. We need rules."

Abdul says "ok boss, Im on it"

And what does abdul do? He determines that before any building (rupturing the skin of mother Gaia) a complete mineralogical assessment must be done at the site and, for good measure, in a grid pattern not less than 500 yards from the nearest proposed soil disturbance. The samples must be obtained under the direction of the office of land management. Personally.

Now, the end of the year rolls around and I, as manager, cast my baleful gaze at Abdul and say (this is the key, wake up) "and what, you hateful wanker, have you accomplished this year?"

Well, define "accomplish". In a sane world it would mean something of practical import, what it means for abdul is crossing shit off a list. And the more crap that he can show the better.

It does not matter that his "work" impacts real human beings, makes their lives a misery filling out forms and jumping thru hoops, what matters is that I get my next promotion. And to do that my employees do the moral equivalent of cutting out paper dolls. The impact is micromanagement.

See?
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:09 pm

ed wrote:
The bureaucrats write rules. The enforcement arm enforces. Do I have to spell it out for you? Jesus christ risen.


The enforcement arm gets paid the same for eating donuts as for enforcing regulations.

The bureaucrats get paid the same for eating donuts as for writing regulations.

If the bureaucrats are loading up on the regulations it means they are conscientiously following the orders of a president who likes a lot of regulations. :P
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby ed » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:20 pm

No, it is simply part of their annual review. They are regulators, they are paid to regulate. There is no mention of good or bad, appropriate or inappropriate, just regulate.
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby RCC: Act II » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:20 pm

ed wrote:
It does not matter that his "work" impacts real human beings, makes their lives a misery filling out forms and jumping thru hoops, what matters is that I get my next promotion. And to do that my employees do the moral equivalent of cutting out paper dolls. The impact is micromanagement.

See?


I agree with this totally. It is the problem I'm talking about.

Sure, it would be easier on the business to not have to comply with shit, but it isn't about them, so application of policy has to happen on some level and will be some level of a pain in the ass.

Micromanagement was a very bad word choice on my part. What I was getting at was how a general policy is put into place in a specific instance. The whole point behind the concept of a judiciary is to apply the general rules to the specific situation.

Trying to use the legislative rule making concept to do this is basically central planning and creates far too many absurdities. What is useful to guide broad policy is not useful to guide specific enforcement. Using a more judicial approach has the benefit of the law developing organically. It only gets complex in the areas that need to be complex because disputes about it keep arising.

So, set general rules and guidelines, leave it to the business as to how to comply, and any disputes re: enforcement are decided on by an independent body not connected to the rulemaking/enforcement body. Fuck something up, and pay the consequences, not some fine that might be ignored as the price of doing business.

There is still bullshit, but this tends to limit bullshit to things that might actually matter.

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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby ed » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:27 pm

Agree.

Also, every law and rule should have a sunset provision.
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Re: Govenment Regulations

Postby Mentat » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:44 pm

So you agree that bureaucrats and regulators should not forbid businesses from paying for labor and supplies on the basis of where they came from?
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