Debating with Neo-Nazis

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by RCC: Act II » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:04 am

tempta wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Oh yeah, and the poster who started this thread is pretty clearly a JAQing off antisemite who can go fuck himself.
Clearly, you are too drunk to read the thread properly.

I'll accept your apology once you've sobered up. :D
I've been wrong before. This isn't going to be one of those times.

At least I doubt it.

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Doctor X » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:45 am

Curious.
tempta wrote:Would a neo-nazi, or even a Trump supporter, be justified. . . .
Why would a "Trump supporter" have such delusions, or, more to point, why is that relevant? A racist is a racist. That a racist supports Trump, Hillary, the New York Jets, is an entirely different issue.
I'm trying to explain to him that the Jews are good people with good intentions, and aren't discriminating against whites. . . .
Why are Jews "not white?"

Sephardim?

Nevertheless, one would continue a correspondence which such when one admits that such is no longer a friend?

"How peculiar."

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Sir » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:00 am

tempta wrote:Hi, firstly happy new year all. :D

Anyone ever debated against a neo-nazi before? I'm currently having a debate with my (former) friend about who controls the media, and he showed me this:

Image

At first I was skeptical, but he provided me the links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Zucker

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_L._Roberts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Iger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumner_Redstone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Plepler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ochs_Sulzberger_Jr.

And according to their Wiki pages, they all do indeed appear to be Jewish. The rest, like Zuckerberg, all have Jewish names so it's pretty clear that there's verifiably a lot of Jews in high places.

I pointed out that Rupert Murdoch, who owns FOX, is not a Jew, then he responded and told me that Rupert Murdoch sold FOX to Bob Iger (in the image) last month and therefore every single American major media outlet in existence is currently owned by a Jew.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/14/dis ... ion-x-men/

I know that he's an idiot, but I'm trying to get my point across to him as I've been there before as well.

:freedom:
Too obvious.
Warning: If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this useless fine print is another second off your life. Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments?

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by tempta » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:15 am

Doctor X wrote:Why would a "Trump supporter" have such delusions, or, more to point, why is that relevant. A racist is a racist. That a racist supports Trump, Hillary, the New York Jets, is an entirely different issue.
Well for one, Trump is commonly associated with neo-nazis and white supremacists, which are essentially interchangeable terms.

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/8/16/161 ... l-violence

In the article I linked to earlier, even Rupert Murdoch and Trump's (former) National Security Advisor's son were retweeting such racist conspiracy theories too. So it's not something uncommon, and a visit to any alt-right website will immediately show you that. It seems to be an ideology that's gaining traction among white conservatives.
Why are Jews "not white?"

Sephardim?
That's what I asked first also, then he told me that Jews consider themselves distinct from whites, and listed a bunch of examples of Jews proclaiming as such. Genetically, the specific types of Jews we see high presence of in media would be Ashkenazi Jews - a combination of middle eastern and European ancestry. Regardless, he alleges that there is an apparent tribal mentality amongst Jews that causes them to favor "fellow Jews" over other whites, resulting in nepotism within certain industries causing the over-representations.

Now mind you - these aren't my views. I see Mark Zuckerberg as white myself, but it's understandable if someone has pride in their Jewish identity, so I'm not disagreeing with him here. It's a more matter of perception over actual fact.
Jewish identity is the objective or subjective state of perceiving oneself as a Jew and as relating to being Jewish.[1] Under the broader definition, the Jewish identity does not depend on whether or not a person is regarded as a Jew by others, or by an external set of religious, or legal, or sociological norms. Jewish identity does not need to imply religious orthodoxy. Accordingly, Jewish identity can be cultural in nature. Jewish identity can involve ties to the Jewish community. Traditional Judaism bases Jewishness on matrilineal descent. According to Jewish law (halacha), all those born of a Jewish mother are Jewish, regardless of personal beliefs or level of observance of Jewish law. Jews who are atheists may have Jewish identity. While the absolute majority of people with this identity are of Jewish ethnicity, people born from a mixed Jewish and non-Jewish background may have Jewish identity. (See also "half-Jewish".)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_identity
Genetic studies on Ashkenazim—researching both their paternal and maternal lineages—suggest a significant proportion of Middle Eastern ancestry. Those studies have arrived at diverging conclusions regarding both the degree and the sources of their European ancestry, and have generally focused on the extent of the European genetic origin observed in Ashkenazi maternal lineages.[35] Ashkenazi Jews are popularly contrasted with Sephardi Jews (also called Sephardim), who descend from Jews who settled in the Iberian Peninsula, and Mizrahi Jews, who descend from Jews who remained in the Middle East. There are some differences in how the groups pronounce certain Hebrew letters, and in points of ritual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews
So no, not Sephardim.
Nevertheless, one would continue a correspondence which such when one admits that such is no longer a friend?

"How peculiar."
Well, I'm not going to befriend a neo-nazi, but he thinks he can convince me by giving me a bunch of infographics. That's why I intend to prove him wrong, and came here looking for ideas as well as seeking similar experiences.

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Doctor X » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:56 am

tempta wrote:Well for one, Trump is commonly associated with neo-nazis and white supremacists, which are essentially interchangeable terms.
By whom? And why would anyone care? Obama was "commonly associated" with terrorists, Hillary was "commonly associated" with fascists--they widely supported her--as did anti-feminists. It proves nothing more than trite political smearing worthy of no further notice.
That's what I asked first also, then he told me that Jews consider. . . .
He "speaks for 'Jews?'"

How peculiar times two.
Regardless, he alleges that there is an apparent tribal mentality amongst. . . .
"He" alleges.

How peculiar times three.

I allege that Mila Kunis is currently engaged in a duel with Margot Robbie for the right to [CENSORED--Ed.] me whilst covered in chocolate sauce.

What some anonymous figures claims about others reduces to one grand Well Poisoning fallacy less interesting than a Star Wars movie not actually based on Kurosawa.
Now mind you - these aren't my views.
Of course not.
I see Mark Zuckerberg as white myself, . . .

. . . but it's understandable if someone has pride in their Jewish identity,
as opposed to Italian, Polish, Indian, Serbian, Patriot, Met, or even, I shudder to write it, Canadian identity?
It's a more matter of perception over actual fact.
Which is all you

he has offered, which falls before fact.
Well, I'm not going to befriend a neo-nazi,
You claimed you were his friend.

How peculiar times four.
but he thinks he can convince me by giving me a bunch of infographics.
Only if you engage him.
That's why I intend to prove him wrong, and came here looking for ideas as well as seeking similar experiences.
And you seek to do this why?

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
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"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by tempta » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:22 am

Doctor X wrote:By whom? And why would anyone care? Obama was "commonly associated" with terrorists, Hillary was "commonly associated" with fascists--they widely supported her--as did anti-feminists. It proves nothing more than trite political smearing worthy of no further notice.
To answer your question about why a Trump supporter might have such delusions:

I suppose that because conservatives are generally in favor of border protection out of fear of terrorism, they're more prone to take interest in conspiracy theories involving an alleged group of conspirators for mass immigration than a liberal might. As the media is generally liberal and in favor of progressivism, neo-nazis are led to believe that the "Jews", who are uniquely over represented in the media are socially engineering the people through television to promote progressive beliefs and conspiring for mass immigration in western countries in order to depopulate the white race, or "destabilize western civilization", so to say.

In the end, it's racist and therefore wrong.
He "speaks for 'Jews?'"

How peculiar times two.
He most certainly does not.

As I cited from Wikipedia, Jewish people have a distinct genetic lineage. Nothing false there in the least. I guess you can simultaneously consider yourself white and a Jew, but skin-color alone doesn't determine ancestry. Have you ever met a Jew before? They generally identify as Jewish.
"He" alleges.

How peculiar times three.

I allege that Mila Kunis is currently engaged in a duel with Margot Robbie for the right to [CENSORED--Ed.] me whilst covered in chocolate sauce.

What some anonymous figures claims about others reduces to one grand Well Poisoning fallacy less interesting than a Star Wars movie not actually based on Kurosawa.
I wrote that he "alleges" it because it's not proven. I'm well aware of what it means and the intended effect. What would your explanation be for the over representation? That's what I'm trying to explain to him.
Only if you engage him.
Well, that's true, but haven't you ever debated with a evangelical before?
And you seek to do this why?
For the same reasons we're here on this thread, I suppose.

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Mentat » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:31 am

Weren't you complaining earlier the holocaust wasn't real or something?
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by tempta » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:36 am

Mentat wrote:Weren't you complaining earlier the holocaust wasn't real or something?
Haha, that was years ago, you have great memory. :D

Those were some dark times, but I'm over that. I watched Schindler's List by Steven Spielberg and listened to the survivors' testimonies, and am now fully convinced that Hitler was an evil dictator who killed millions of Jews out of spite.

That's probably why I sympathize with the neo-nazi in question a little bit, because it's easy to get fooled by nazi propaganda.

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Doctor X » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:12 am

tempta wrote:To answer your question about why a Trump supporter might have such delusions:

I suppose that because conservatives are generally in favor of border protection out of fear of terrorism, they're more prone to take interest in conspiracy theories involving an alleged group of conspirators for mass immigration than a liberal might.
That does not follow, nevertheless:
As the media is generally liberal
unless it is Fox News and her affiliates:
and in favor of progressivism, neo-nazis are led to believe. . . .
and that is quite the leap from "conservatives" to "neo-nazis [Sic--Ed.]." So I would suggest casting that aside as one casts aside casting aside things to be cast aside.
In the end, it's racist and therefore wrong.
Of course, which returns us to the Question Ordinary I raised previously: "why?" as in why do you engage him?
His Humble MagNIfIcence wrote:He "speaks for 'Jews?'"

How peculiar times two.
A Man Who Seeks Treasure wrote:He most certainly does not.
He seems to think that he does.
As I cited from Wikipedia, Jewish people have a distinct genetic lineage.
From what? From the Japanese? Certainly not from other groups who hail'd from the region which, incidentally, includes the Canaanites, Moabites, and Abdul the Taxis Gelder who lives in Spokane, methinks. You will find quite the genetic kinship with Arabians, must to the distemper of those who wish to pit "Arab" against "Jew."
I guess you can simultaneously consider yourself white and a Jew, but skin-color alone doesn't determine ancestry.
Then how do you define "white" and by what criteria?
Have you ever met a Jew before? They generally identify as Jewish.
Is there a place one goes to to meet them? Some sort of zoo or rather zoë? Does one require an appointment?

From my experience, Italians generally identify as "Italian," the Irish as "Irish," the Japanese as "Japanese"--though they speak some odd mishmash and actually refer to themselves as "knee Hun gin," which is a form of refeshment, methinks--the Chinese, when they are not ass-raping shemp as "Chinese," the folks unfortunate to live in Green Bay as "Cheese Heads," New Englanders as "the Greatest Dynasty in History," Yankee fans as "Mother Fuckers," Canadians as "America's Hats," and, of course, Clevelanders as "Products of a Factory of Sadness."

These are different how?
I wrote that he "alleges" it because it's not proven. I'm well aware of what it means and the intended effect. What would your explanation be for the over representation? That's what I'm trying to explain to him.
Why is it significant? I can draw a target around My Spastic Friend--everyone must have one, no end to the entertainment during parties--and his recent encounter with an AR-15 and declare him accurate. Rupert Murdoch proved perhaps the most important and influential figure in media in recent, as in post-VHS, history; yet "your friend" dismissed him because he did not fit his preconceived prejudice.
Well, that's true, but haven't you ever debated with a evangelical before?
I am not sure, what is that like?

Certainly, I have never knocked on the proverbial door of said εὐανγ[Stop that!--Ed.] "evangelical" and demanded that such understand that both Mark and John deny salvation to good men who seek it for entirely different reasons, then violate his begonias, for that is not what Gentlemen do, what? What?
For the same reasons we're here on this thread, I suppose.
You came here.

I suppose it proves more amusing than the removal of our soil from Boss Kean's ditch. Nevertheless, you have yet to provide a raisin dey eta.

Allow me, then, "to review the catechism":
  • 1. Why do you engage with this person?
    2. Why do you allow him to engage with you?
    3. Why would you take a seven-step drop to pass on the opponent's 23rd yard-line when a simple score such as a field goal all but ends the game?
    4. Why, since you claim you dismiss his fallacious meanderings, do you present them?
    5. Why did it take so long to fire Chuck Pegano?
For you see, since I Am--ἐγώ εἰμί--Kind, I would remind that fatuous claims are just that. They prove old and trite and uninteresting. If someone wants help explaining to, say, a Jets fan why his life has no meaning, that Jesus hates him, that everyone is raping His Mom, and he should go kill himself, there is a simple set of facts that establish that.

For a Cleveland fan . . . "futility thy name is 'Browns.'"

For a Flat Earther, a number of facts depending on the why a person believes that.

You have not presented the "why."

Image

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"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
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"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Doctor X » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:20 am

tempta wrote:
Mentat wrote:Weren't you complaining earlier the holocaust wasn't real or something?
Haha, that was years ago, you have great memory. :D
Racism does secure a firm hold beyond the hippocampi into the more diffuse cerebral cortices, yes.

Perhaps I expect too much. Nevertheless, since I ever view the glass as half-dirty, I must suggest one introduce oneself to clarify ones position in such matters, especially if one is "known" to have held what would prove laughable if they did not demand such disgust beliefs in the past.

Image

Makes for a Happy Death Goddess.

Even in the rain.

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Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Edward » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:42 am

tempta wrote:I'm currently having a debate with my (former) friend
Is he Local?
Hello? Hello? What's all this shouting?! We'll have no trouble here!

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by tempta » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:47 am

Doctor X wrote:unless it is Fox News and her affiliates:
True.
and that is quite the leap from "conservatives" to "neo-nazis [Sic--Ed.]." So I would suggest casting that aside as one casts aside casting aside things to be cast aside.
This is the recruitment process of the alt-right. The young conservatives are the target base, as they are more prone to racist propaganda.

Conservative --> Alt-right --> White Supremacist --> Neo-Nazi

Something like that.
Of course, which returns us to the Question Ordinary I raised previously: "why?" as in why do you engage him?
Well, if he's going to spend the rest of his life hating a minority group for no reason, better off helping him now than never. He's probably seeking confirmation.
From what? From the Japanese? Certainly not from other groups who hail'd from the region which, incidentally, includes the Canaanites, Moabites, and Abdul the Taxis Gelder who lives in Spokane, methinks. You will find quite the genetic kinship with Arabians, must to the distemper of those who wish to pit "Arab" against "Jew."
That's a good comparison actually. I think he's drawing parallels to the Italian mafia, which was composed primarily of Italians. The "Jews" would probably be short for the "Jewish mafia" in his head. Even for him, it would be too much of a stretch to assume that all Jews are working together when there are Jews on both sides of the spectrum, including Trump's son-in-law.
Then how do you define "white" and by what criteria?
The neo-nazis woud likely use the same racial classification process as Nazi Germany did. I can't read German, but here it is:

Image
Why is it significant? I can draw a target around My Spastic Friend--everyone must have one, no end to the entertainment during parties--and his recent encounter with an AR-15 and declare him accurate. Rupert Murdoch proved perhaps the most important and influential figure in media in recent, as in post-VHS, history; yet "your friend" dismissed him because he did not fit his preconceived prejudice.
Well, Murdoch did tweet out the same racist conspiracy theory that we're discussing here. He's likely a racist neo-nazi also. That's one of the first things I pointed out, and he said that's not true anymore because he sold it to Disney, owned by Bob Iger (in OP).


I am not sure, what is that like?

Certainly, I have never knocked on the proverbial door of said εὐανγ[Stop that!--Ed.] "evangelical" and demanded that such understand that both Mark and John deny salvation to good men who seek it for entirely different reasons, then violate his begonias, for that is not what Gentlemen do, what? What?
Well I was suggesting that I'm responding to him for no particular reason other than to possibly help him. Kind of like those pointless twitter arguments you see on Trump's profile page in a way.

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by tempta » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:51 am

Edward wrote:
tempta wrote:I'm currently having a debate with my (former) friend
Is he Local?
On Facebook.

Also Takano is a bitch. :De_Bunk:

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Doctor X » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:01 am

tempta wrote:This is the recruitment process of the alt-right. The young conservatives are the target base, as they are more prone to racist propaganda.
Than the "left" that engages in racism?

How peculiar times four?
Well, if he's going to spend the rest of his life hating a minority group for no reason, better off helping him now than never. He's probably seeking confirmation.
Indubitably, as do most who do not bother to think about things and merely spout slogans as if spouting makes them true. Nevertheless, why does it become your business?
That's a good comparison actually. I think he's drawing parallels to the Italian mafia, which was composed primarily of Italians.
The Sicilian Mafia, and, most apt, they restricted membership to Sicilians.
Italians could not become "made" men: "a friend of ours."

So he sort of undercuts himself right there, does he not?
The neo-nazis woud likely use the same racial classification process as Nazi Germany did.
Which, given her failure with respect to actual science and reality, sort of ends it right there.
Well, Murdoch did tweet out the same racist conspiracy theory that we're discussing here. He's likely a racist neo-nazi also. That's one of the first things I pointed out, and he said that's not true anymore because he sold it to Disney, owned by Bob Iger (in OP).
Or he is just a mercenary blow-hard who bends in the direction the money flows. Nevertheless, his very decades presence sort of sank that particular conspiracy theory.
Well I was suggesting that I'm responding to him for no particular reason other than to possibly help him. Kind of like those pointless twitter arguments you see on Trump's profile page in a way.
I do not engage in pointless twitter arguments. "Someone" may, indeed, "be wrong on the Internet," but one can always close ones door to such foolishness.

So I return to the Question Ordinary: "why?" If he is "no longer a friend," why bother?

Then the Question Extraordinary remains: your explanation as to why you basically believed the Earth is flat. One can not so easily dismiss a belief that, given the rather definitive evidences--thanks--to the contrary, one can only hold if one is a racist. People may change, but reputations take more time.

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"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Edward » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:03 am

tempta wrote:Also Takano is a bitch. :De_Bunk:
But is she Local?
Hello? Hello? What's all this shouting?! We'll have no trouble here!

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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by ed » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:47 am

You leave my pal RC Mk2 alone. He makes wonderful points. AND can stomach biscuits and gravy.

n.b. that is the one thing I cannot wrap my head around.
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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:51 pm

If you search for this guy's posts in an earlier thread, you will find someone who got his ass kicked over "Holocaust revisionism".

Start here:
viewtopic.php?p=846764#p846764

De nada. :)
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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by ed » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:05 pm

Clearly a wetback of the worst sort.
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Rob Lister
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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:19 pm

tempta wrote:I'm trying to explain to him that the Jews are good people with good intentions, ...
Not that because you have no evidence for or against it. I suppose the "intentions" curve of Jews is the same as for any other race or creed. You might say that instead.

I'm kind of leaning toward RCC's opinion. I'm pretty sober too but not otherwise particularly sane.

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ed
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Re: Debating with Neo-Nazis

Post by ed » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:29 pm

Jews suck to the precise same extent as everyone else sucks.

Except Rob, he is worse.
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