Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby corplinx » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:04 pm

Skeeve made me reconsider Ben Shapiro. Ben is an Orthodox Jewish conservative who stereotypically believes small government ends at a woman's uterus. However, he is... a thoughtful person where he doesn't have his blindspots.

He was basically fired from Breitbart for not being Pro-Trump.

Last night I was scrolling through podcasts looking for some background noise and saw he had one called "someone take away trump's phone".

Despite my self-imposed "stop watching the news, because the news is all high school level drama bullshit now where trump wags the dog by tweeting", I gave it a listen.

Apparently the latest high school drama news cycle is "Steve Bannon said X, Y, Z... OOOOOOH DRAMA!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1JJ1CmVako

TL;DW: Shapiro calls bullshit on all of it, and additional posits that his ex-boss was only part of the Trump campaign as part of a money play and that his role in the White House was a joke meant to consolidate big money backers.

Now, If Shapiro knew this was the reality then all those beltway insiders knew it too. These people know who the Scaife, Adelson, Koch, Soros, Mercers of the US are. They know who is backing what and what the game is. But they let "editorials" accusing Bannon of being a Shadow President and FakeNews about him being elevated to an EQUAL on the National Security Council play out despite knowing the truth. In other words, it truly was a seditious attempt to unhinge the President. It was psychological warfare. It was phony.

Trump is the king of bullshit but it turns out that no Champion of the Truth including Anderson Cooper called bullshit on the Bannon bullshit that they all knew was bullshit.

I am inclined to believe Shapiro even if the grapes are sour because his simple explanation is better than any other one.

Morrissey was right, "you have to stop, turn off the news, because the news is there to frighten you"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rmAi9XmlIo

It's one huge gaslight and the reason why I refuse to take part in the daily robble robble. I think these assholes get off on it. Their mass disinformation, whether it's shadow presidents or russiagate nothing burgers, I think they enjoy misinforming the public about things they know to be untrue. Influence is a dark drug they are addicted to. They create these bogus narratives then enjoy LARPing their way through them.

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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby Doctor X » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:36 pm

So . . . this Ben Shapiro . . . he colluded with the Russians?

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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:38 pm

I find the Shapiro thing does not require so much analysis.

A political writer fired for not agreeing with the boss?
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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby gnome » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:22 pm

The one I saw today said that Bannon claimed the President and his top people engaged in treason and would be impeached because of Muller.

Somebody's full of shit and... well, it's probably pretty much everyone.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby corplinx » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:44 pm

The Bullshit Wars.

One king bullshitter with part of foxnews in his pocket versus the deep state and the rest of the media. The only way to win is to tune it out.

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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby gnome » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:52 pm

The "Deep State" is an idea in itself that carries a lot of bullshit.

Not that it doesn't exist--in some form or another I'm sure it does. What I consider bullshit is the occasional claim that any one person or family controls it, or that it acts in unison. It seems to me to be more likely to be different powerful executive departments each with their own motives and level of influence.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby corplinx » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:01 pm

When Bill Buckley admitted that he was wrong on Vietnam in a discussion with Hitchens, part of what he said was basically "the deep state lied to me about what was going on and I mistakenly trusted them".

Yes, it isn't single minded thing, but there is a majority groupthink among those people and being people; it is usually warped.

Speaking of which, they put the old episodes on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNKkcAOYCVY

Here, an under-prepared Buckley basically defends Vietnam on behalf of the deep state whom he trusts and relies on being pedantic and trying to trap Vaughn in extreme extrapolations. Vaughn credits the appearance with giving steam to the idea that opposition to Vietnam wasn't the moral domain of the hippies.

Back before we had twitter wars and cable news and people actually talked to each other, it was still a rigged system but at least the pace was slower.

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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:08 pm

gnome wrote:The one I saw today said that Bannon claimed the President and his top people engaged in treason and would be impeached because of Muller.

Somebody's full of shit and... well, it's probably pretty much everyone.


Rule of thumb:
Anyone who says "treason" is full of shit, and that goes double for Democrats.
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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby WildCat » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:08 pm

Michael Wolff's new book is getting a lot of press today, not just for the explosive allegations in it about Trump but because Trump is threatening to sue to stop it (good luck!).

But there's actually a disclaimer in it admitting much of it is bullshit:
Michael Wolff wrote:Many of the accounts of what has happened in the Trump White House are in conflict with one another; many, in Trumpian fashion, are baldly untrue. Those conflicts, and that looseness with the truth, if not with reality itself, are an elemental thread of the book. Sometimes I have let the players offer their versions, in turn allowing the reader to judge them. In other instances I have, through a consistency in accounts and through sources I have come to trust, settled on a version of events I believe to be true.

If that doesn't sum up the era we're living in I don't know what does!
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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:09 pm

gnome wrote:The "Deep State" is an idea in itself that carries a lot of bullshit.


Any polity large enough that you don't know everybody personally has a "deep state".
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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby gnome » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:17 pm

corplinx wrote:When Bill Buckley admitted that he was wrong on Vietnam in a discussion with Hitchens, part of what he said was basically "the deep state lied to me about what was going on and I mistakenly trusted them".

Yes, it isn't single minded thing, but there is a majority groupthink among those people and being people; it is usually warped.

Speaking of which, they put the old episodes on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNKkcAOYCVY

Here, an under-prepared Buckley basically defends Vietnam on behalf of the deep state whom he trusts and relies on being pedantic and trying to trap Vaughn in extreme extrapolations. Vaughn credits the appearance with giving steam to the idea that opposition to Vietnam wasn't the moral domain of the hippies.

Back before we had twitter wars and cable news and people actually talked to each other, it was still a rigged system but at least the pace was slower.


I would argue that you would have a hard time demonstrating ideological "groupthink" with any degree of certainty, as apparent examples might be difficult to distinguish from a convergence of practical interests rather than being ideologically driven.

Again, not that it never occurs, but I wonder if it is really possible to know the degree and to the extent without being involved, and if we can trust the accounts of anyone involved.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby Mentat » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:31 pm

Deep state, it's all fake news, bipartisan groupthink holding back the truth . . . ah, the standard red flags of any conspiracy nutter rant.

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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby WildCat » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:50 pm

I guess Chuck Schumer is a conspiracy nutter.
New Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Tuesday that President-elect Donald Trump is “being really dumb” by taking on the intelligence community and its assessments on Russia’s cyber activities.

“Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you,” Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow.

“So even for a practical, supposedly hard-nosed businessman, he’s being really dumb to do this.”
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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby RCC: Act II » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:04 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
gnome wrote:The "Deep State" is an idea in itself that carries a lot of bullshit.


Any polity large enough that you don't know everybody personally has a "deep state".


Basically.

The idea of a deep state is just complaining about not being able to totally consolidate power within the executive branch and trying to make failure to do so something ominous. We've developed institutions and traditions within the executive branch with varying degrees of independence. Those in charge of the executive branch can guide the ship but can't make it turn on a dime, which can be frustrating but does allow for stability.

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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby Doctor X » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:42 pm

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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby corplinx » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:28 am

It's fun reading Wildcat's Schumer quote before reading RCC's blind man impersonation.

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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby Anaxagoras » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:58 am

Why believe Michael Wolff? Because, for now, this stuff is too good not to :P

It takes a thief to catch a thief, and Michael Wolff, with his new book, "Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House," is the ideal hustler to capture President Trump, whom Wolff describes as having a "twinkle in his eye, larceny in his soul." Wolff, if memory serves, is similar, minus the twinkle. Gimlet eyes don't twinkle.

Say what you will about Wolff: Unless the book is wholesale invention, something in his I'm-with-the-band swagger in the West Wing attracted awesomely sordid material from Trump's scurvy syndicate. In John Sterling at Macmillan, the book has a masterful editor, and three fact-checkers reviewed it. So I'm betting "Fire and Fury" will withstand whatever charges of journalistic impropriety come at it.

And you're a better woman than I am if you can look away.

Take Stephen Bannon's unpulled punch in calling Donald Trump, Jr. "treasonous" for meeting with Russians in June 2016. Centrist and liberal media spent a year walking a prudent, scholarly line pontificating about the crimes Trump and his clan may or may not have committed. And suddenly everyone's favorite warlock of the far-right comes right out with it: treason.


FWIW, I've checked Breitbart to see if there was any disavowal of the quotes coming from Bannon, and there does not appear to be. In fact, I couldn't really find any pushback against the book over there. It's not even the top story right now. Even reports about White House pushback don't seem to take a side:

Breitbart links follow:
Donald Trump Goes to War Against Michael Wolff Book
Conservative Donor Rebekah Mercer Issues Statement on Steve Bannon

Report: ‘Fire and Fury’ Author Wolff Has ‘Dozens of Hours’ of Tape Recordings Confirming Quotes in Book

Of course, even if he does have tape recordings to back up his quotes, it is possible to create a misleading narrative by taking quotes out of context. However, the White House has now banned cell phones for both staff members and guests:
Soon after the Axios report dropped Thursday morning, White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders announced a ban on personal cell phones inside the White House — “for both guests and staff.”

Wolff wrote in The Hollywood Reporter that he collected the material for his book as a “fly on the wall” over 18 months. Allen says that the White House concedes that Wolff received access to the building less than 20 times since Trump’s inauguration.


From Axios:
Scoop: Wolff taped interviews with Bannon, top officials

Michael Wolff has tapes to back up quotes in his incendiary book — dozens of hours of them.

Among the sources he taped, I'm told, are Steve Bannon and former White House deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh.
Keep reading 195 words

So that's going to make it harder for officials to deny embarrassing or revealing quotes attributed to them in "Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House," out Tuesday.
In some cases, the officials thought they were talking off the record. But what are they going to do now?
Although the White House yesterday portrayed Wolff as a poseur, he spent hours at a time in private areas of the West Wing, including the office of Reince Priebus when he was chief of staff.
The White House says Wolff was cleared for access to the West Wing fewer than 20 times.
Wolff, a New Yorker, stayed at the Hay Adams Hotel when he came down to D.C., and White House sources frequently crossed Lafayette Park to meet him there.

Some reporters and officials are calling the book sloppy, and challenging specific passages.
How could Wolff possibly know for sure what Steve Bannon and the late Roger Ailes said at a private dinner?
It turns out Wolff hosted the dinner for six at his Manhattan townhouse.
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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby Anaxagoras » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:50 am



:notsure:
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby Anaxagoras » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:07 am

"You Can’t Make This S--- Up": My Year Inside Trump's Insane White House

Image

I interviewed Donald Trump for The Hollywood Reporter in June 2016, and he seemed to have liked — or not disliked — the piece I wrote. "Great cover!" his press assistant, Hope Hicks, emailed me after it came out (it was a picture of a belligerent Trump in mirrored sunglasses). After the election, I proposed to him that I come to the White House and report an inside story for later publication — journalistically, as a fly on the wall — which he seemed to misconstrue as a request for a job. No, I said. I'd like to just watch and write a book. "A book?" he responded, losing interest. "I hear a lot of people want to write books," he added, clearly not understanding why anybody would. "Do you know Ed Klein?"— author of several virulently anti-Hillary books. "Great guy. I think he should write a book about me." But sure, Trump seemed to say, knock yourself out.

Since the new White House was often uncertain about what the president meant or did not mean in any given utterance, his non-disapproval became a kind of passport for me to hang around — checking in each week at the Hay-Adams hotel, making appointments with various senior staffers who put my name in the "system," and then wandering across the street to the White House and plunking myself down, day after day, on a West Wing couch.

The West Wing is configured in such a way that the anteroom is quite a thoroughfare — everybody passes by. Assistants — young women in the Trump uniform of short skirts, high boots, long and loose hair — as well as, in situation-comedy proximity, all the new stars of the show: Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, Reince Priebus, Sean Spicer, Jared Kushner, Mike Pence, Gary Cohn, Michael Flynn (and after Flynn's abrupt departure less than a month into the job for his involvement in the Russia affair, his replacement, H.R. McMaster), all neatly accessible.
. . .

Their initial response was to hawkishly defend him — he demanded it — and by defending him they seemed to be defending themselves. Politics is a game, of course, of determined role-playing, but the difficulties of staying in character in the Trump White House became evident almost from the first day.

"You can't make this shit up," Sean Spicer, soon to be portrayed as the most hapless man in America, muttered to himself after his tortured press briefing on the first day of the new administration, when he was called to justify the president's inaugural crowd numbers — and soon enough, he adopted this as a personal mantra. Reince Priebus, the new chief of staff, had, shortly after the announcement of his appointment in November, started to think he would not last until the inauguration. Then, making it to the White House, he hoped he could last a respectable year, but he quickly scaled back his goal to six months. Kellyanne Conway, who would put a finger-gun to her head in private about Trump's public comments, continued to mount an implacable defense on cable television, until she was pulled off the air by others in the White House who, however much the president enjoyed her, found her militancy idiotic. (Even Ivanka and Jared regarded Conway's fulsome defenses as cringeworthy.)

Steve Bannon tried to gamely suggest that Trump was mere front man and that he, with plan and purpose and intellect, was, more reasonably, running the show — commanding a whiteboard of policies and initiatives that he claimed to have assembled from Trump's off-the-cuff ramblings and utterances. His adoption of the Saturday Night Live sobriquet "President Bannon" was less than entirely humorous. Within the first few weeks, even rote conversations with senior staff trying to explain the new White House's policies and positions would turn into a body-language ballet of eye-rolling and shrugs and pantomime of jaws dropping. Leaking became the political manifestation of the don't-blame-me eye roll.

The surreal sense of the Trump presidency was being lived as intensely inside the White House as out. Trump was, for the people closest to him, the ultimate enigma. He had been elected president, that through-the-eye-of-the-needle feat, but obviously, he was yet … Trump. Indeed, he seemed as confused as anyone to find himself in the White House, even attempting to barricade himself into his bedroom with his own lock over the protests of the Secret Service.

There was some effort to ascribe to Trump magical powers. In an early conversation — half comic, half desperate — Bannon tried to explain him as having a particular kind of Jungian brilliance. Trump, obviously without having read Jung, somehow had access to the collective unconscious of the other half of the country, and, too, a gift for inventing archetypes: Little Marco … Low-Energy Jeb … the Failing New York Times. Everybody in the West Wing tried, with some panic, to explain him, and, sheepishly, their own reason for being here. He's intuitive, he gets it, he has a mind-meld with his base. But there was palpable relief, of an Emperor's New Clothes sort, when longtime Trump staffer Sam Nunberg — fired by Trump during the campaign but credited with knowing him better than anyone else — came back into the fold and said, widely, "He's just a fucking fool."

Part of that foolishness was his inability to deal with his own family. In a way, this gave him a human dimension. Even Donald Trump couldn't say no to his kids. "It's a littleee, littleee complicated …" he explained to Priebus about why he needed to give his daughter and son-in-law official jobs. But the effect of their leadership roles was to compound his own boundless inexperience in Washington, creating from the outset frustration and then disbelief and then rage on the part of the professionals in his employ.

The men and women of the West Wing, for all that the media was ridiculing them, actually felt they had a responsibility to the country. "Trump," said one senior Republican, "turned selfish careerists into patriots." Their job was to maintain the pretense of relative sanity, even as each individually came to the conclusion that, in generous terms, it was insane to think you could run a White House without experience, organizational structure or a real purpose.

On March 30, after the collapse of the health care bill, 32-year-old Katie Walsh, the deputy chief of staff, the effective administration chief of the West Wing, a stalwart political pro and stellar example of governing craft, walked out. Little more than two months in, she quit. Couldn't take it anymore. Nutso. To lose your deputy chief of staff at the get-go would be a sign of crisis in any other administration, but inside an obviously exploding one it was hardly noticed.

While there might be a scary national movement of Trumpers, the reality in the White House was stranger still: There was Jared and Ivanka, Democrats; there was Priebus, a mainstream Republican; and there was Bannon, whose reasonable claim to be the one person actually representing Trumpism so infuriated Trump that Bannon was hopelessly sidelined by April. "How much influence do you think Steve Bannon has over me? Zero! Zero!" Trump muttered and stormed. To say that no one was in charge, that there were no guiding principles, not even a working org chart, would again be an understatement. "What do these people do?" asked everyone pretty much of everyone else.

The competition to take charge, which, because each side represented an inimical position to the other, became not so much a struggle for leadership, but a near-violent factional war. Jared and Ivanka were against Priebus and Bannon, trying to push both men out. Bannon was against Jared and Ivanka and Priebus, practicing what everybody thought were dark arts against them. Priebus, everybody's punching bag, just tried to survive another day. By late spring, the larger political landscape seemed to become almost irrelevant, with everyone focused on the more lethal battles within the White House itself. This included screaming fights in the halls and in front of a bemused Trump in the Oval Office (when he was not the one screaming himself), together with leaks about what Russians your opponents might have been talking to.

Reigning over all of this was Trump, enigma, cipher and disruptor. How to get along with Trump — who veered between a kind of blissed-out pleasure of being in the Oval Office and a deep, childish frustration that he couldn't have what he wanted? Here was a man singularly focused on his own needs for instant gratification, be that a hamburger, a segment on Fox & Friends or an Oval Office photo opp. "I want a win. I want a win. Where's my win?" he would regularly declaim. He was, in words used by almost every member of the senior staff on repeated occasions, "like a child." A chronic naysayer, Trump himself stoked constant discord with his daily after-dinner phone calls to his billionaire friends about the disloyalty and incompetence around him. His billionaire friends then shared this with their billionaire friends, creating the endless leaks which the president so furiously railed against.
. . .
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Re: Yes, It is ALL Fakenews

Postby Grammatron » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:31 am

Anaxagoras wrote: :notsure:


You're not sure that this obvious bullshit is bullshit?
pillory wrote:jokes aren't funny....seriously thinking......

seriously thinking might be funny....but it's not joke


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