Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

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Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:13 pm

While Trump may indeed be a racist, that particular comment was not evidences.

Every country my own ancestors left was a shithole.

If not now, at the time they left.

For example Ukraine in 1913 (which was before all the really bad stuff happened there).
Likewise Roumania in 1902 and southern Italy in the 1890s.

Or going outside my own ancestry, Germany in 1848. There were Germans in the USA from day one, but the big wave that made them the #2 ethnicity in the USA for a while was right after that.

Ireland around the same time. I'd rather live in Haiti now than Ireland back then.

Yes even Norway for some. They settled in Minnesota, which did not have so many Somalis back then.

etc.
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Giz » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:18 pm

Right. Sanitation, corruption, income... there are a lot of reasons why Norway is better than Haiti (that don't involve ethnicity ). And that's without pointing out that immigrants from Norway are leaving a comprehensive welfare state and universal healthcare (i.e. them moving to the USA is prima facie evidence that they do not plan on mooching off the taxpayer).

Trump has said approximately 1 billion offensive things that could be construed as racist. This is NOT the one to get steamed about.

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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:24 pm

At least he hasn't blocked immigration from Cleveland.

You would think that folks would have learned by now that this sort of thing happens every Friday.
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Rob Lister » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:43 pm

Nobody (but Canadians) move here from a great country. That should be obvious. They're all a bunch of shitholes.

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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby WildCat » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:00 am

I don't think it's really that the countries are shitholes, but that we're getting poorly educated, low-skilled people from them that end up on welfare and then they bring in their poorly educated, low-skilled relatives to collect welfare.

It's not 1900 any more, the immigrants we needed then are not the immigrants we need now. Back then 90% of jobs were low-skilled, did not require much education. It's much different now, we have an enormous glut of low-skilled workers and that's reflected in stagnant wages at the lower end of the income scale and high expenditures for welfare, food stamps, etc. even for working people.

There's enormous demand to immigrate to the USA, we can pick and choose who comes here. It makes sense to bring in highly educated, English-speaking professionals and entrepreneurs who will add to our economy instead of take from it. Doctors, engineers and such. We don't need to import Uber drivers, fruit pickers, and drywall hangers. Especially when we have an enormous glut of such labor here already.

And this, btw, is what pretty much every other country already does. There's a reason we consistently fail to lower the poverty rate - it's because we keep importing poor people.It's no coiuncidence that California, with the highest percentage of illegal immigrants of any state, also has the highest cost-of-living adjusted poverty rate at 23.8%. That's far higher than even Mississippi which is at 16.1%.

In short, our economy has changed and it's about time our immigration policy changed to reflect it.
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Nyarlathotep » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:35 am

The other half of his statement is the part that puzzles me. What, exactly, makes him think there is any great desire on the part of Norwegians to come here. They consider US the shithole
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Pyrrho » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:33 am

@BillKristol

Two weeks ago a 26-year old soldier raced repeatedly into a burning Bronx apartment building, saving four people before he died in the flames. His name was Pvt. Emmanuel Mensah and he immigrated from Ghana, a country Donald Trump apparently thinks produces very subpar immigrants.
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby ed » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:40 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:The other half of his statement is the part that puzzles me. What, exactly, makes him think there is any great desire on the part of Norwegians to come here. They consider US the shithole


Right. And who cares what they think. However, call Haiti a shithole and ...

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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Witness » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:53 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Every country my own ancestors left was a shithole.

If not now, at the time they left.

Yes, time and place. Not to make a specific statement about the US of A (one could find equivalent pictures from any country):

Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Riis (interesting "critics" part at end of page)

Image
February 1936. "Once a Missouri farmer, now a migratory farm laborer on the Pacific Coast, California." A possible prequel to The Grapes of Wrath. Photo by Dorothea Lange for the Farm Security Administration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothea_Lange

And some pics extracted from Yale's 170'000 images in the Photogrammar archive, searchable by place and date (1935 – 45):

Image

Image

Image
Two children of a migrant fruit worker from Tennessee, standing before their temporary home. This family of eight is camped in a field near the packinghouse at Winter Haven, Florida


I wonder where the billionaire heir with enough bad taste to have his home gold-plated draws the line to "shithole"?

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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Grammatron » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:55 am

Well Norway, obviously.
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Witness » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:01 am

↑ Ah! Of course, silly me! :mrgreen:

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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby WildCat » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:51 am

"an estimated 600 elderly women were killed in 2011 due to the suspicion they were witches, according to the Legal and Human Rights Center in Tanzania."

But Tanzania is black, so if you call it a shithole it's because you're racist.
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:45 pm

Indian Americans: America's Shithole Success Story
Reason

I came to America 32 years ago with my former husband from India, a country that would surely qualify as what this president called a "shithole": It is poor, underdeveloped and polluted, where—as one reader helpfully pointed out—people literally shit on the streets.

...


:coolspecs:
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby shemp » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:08 pm

Liberals need to stop pretending that these countries are not shitholes. By many definitions of the word, they ARE shitholes. But many of them are missing the point. Donald Trump wants to stop or greatly limit immigration from these countries. Liberals should focus on the success stories of immigration, not on the word "shithole" and its application. Many liberals need to stop playing into the hands of assholes.
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby sparks » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:55 pm

WildCat wrote:"an estimated 600 elderly women were killed in 2011 due to the suspicion they were witches, according to the Legal and Human Rights Center in Tanzania."

But Tanzania is black, so if you call it a shithole it's because you're racist.


Really? :P

Here's a little something that may help you out: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Fine_ ... _Detection
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Doctor X » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:58 pm

There are a lot of votes in those shitholes.

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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:00 pm

What if I refrain from calling Tanzania a shithole? Does that make me not a racist?

BTW, I never heard of any Tanzanian immigrants to the USA.

Too busy hunting witches? Not Muslim enough for Obama to have bussed them in like Somalis?

:lmao:
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Giz » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:04 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Indian Americans: America's Shithole Success Story
Reason

I came to America 32 years ago with my former husband from India, a country that would surely qualify as what this president called a "shithole": It is poor, underdeveloped and polluted, where—as one reader helpfully pointed out—people literally shit on the streets.

...


:coolspecs:


Indian Americans. American Indians. What a difference it makes.



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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby Nyarlathotep » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:16 am

I read that as American Indians at first too. Was confused that it wasn't about reservations. I haven't seen one where people shit in the streets though, so that baffled me doubly until I read further


Reservations, BTW, are very variable in the shitholiness. The one my parents and siblings live on would be easily mistaken for a working class neighborhood in a small town, albeit in the middle of nowhere. Others are much more decrepit
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Re: Some more about shithole countries and immigration (needs its own thread)

Postby shemp » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:29 am

The White House is a shithole.
"It is not I who is mad! It is I who is crazy!" -- Ren Hoek

"[... it seems most strange that... ] the Creator of Heaven and Earth resorted to the womb of a certain Jewish lady, grew there for nine months and was born as an infant, and afterwards grew up and was betrayed into the hands of his enemies who sentenced him to death and executed him, and that afterwards... he came to life and returned to his original place. The mind of a Jew, or any other person, simply cannot tolerate these assertions. If you have listened all your life to the priests who have filled your brain and the marrow of your bones with this doctrine, and it has settled into you because of that accustomed habit. [I would argue that if you were hearing these ideas for the first time, now, as a grown adult], you would never have accepted them." -- Rabbi Moses ben Nahman, defending the Talmud at the Disputation of Barcelona, July 1263.

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