The Government Shutdown

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:47 pm

Pyrrho wrote:WHERE IS MY PONY
Only three weeks now.

Promise. :)
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by Doctor X » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:50 pm

Pyrrho wrote:WHERE IS MY PONY
Image

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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by corplinx » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:07 pm

Image

Yes, let me drink those salty tears......

I'm no multimillion dollar political consultant, but whoever told them "taking a virtuous stand for illegals over funding the military will work" should be Clinton'ed off in the middle of the night during a routine 4 shots in the back mugging with nothing stolen.

They stood on a weak foundation thinking the "drumpf is racist because someone said he might have called a shithole country a shithole" had legs enough to make him capitulate. Sad, deluded people.

The hicks will pick MURICA over illegals every time. And I'm pro amnesty.

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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:11 pm

The Dems lost the first propaganda round, but that does not mean they will not get what they want in terms of legislation.
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by corplinx » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:18 pm

its not about what they want. Trump is making them fund the wall to get DACA.

He doesn't care. When he signs DACA, he will say he always stood by them and he's proud to welcome them to the republican party after getting done what Obama and Crooked Hillary could not. Nobody else stood by them, but Trump got their status permanently resolved, and made them safer. Believe you me, you're safer. And you have more jobs, because I like, am great on jobs.

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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by RCC: Act II » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:10 pm

Me? Older, mostly.

Anyway....

The bill funds CHIP for six years, kicks the funding can down the road a massive three weeks, and the GOP has promised to address DACA... which means that if they don't the Dems have an even better moral position for shutting shit down.

So more or less in three weeks we have the same situation except the GOP can't hold the well being of kids hostage and have to be careful of not breaking a clear promise to address DACA.

Given those were the main two dem goals, this doesn't seem like much of a cave...

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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by WildCat » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:03 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:Me? Older, mostly.

Anyway....

The bill funds CHIP for six years, kicks the funding can down the road a massive three weeks, and the GOP has promised to address DACA... which means that if they don't the Dems have an even better moral position for shutting shit down.

So more or less in three weeks we have the same situation except the GOP can't hold the well being of kids hostage and have to be careful of not breaking a clear promise to address DACA.

Given those were the main two dem goals, this doesn't seem like much of a cave...
The Democrat goal is open borders and amnesty for all, not just the "dreamers".

Look at California, where the government is now threatening to arrest any employer who cooperates with ICE - not just government workers.
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by RCC: Act II » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:21 pm

WildCat wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Me? Older, mostly.

Anyway....

The bill funds CHIP for six years, kicks the funding can down the road a massive three weeks, and the GOP has promised to address DACA... which means that if they don't the Dems have an even better moral position for shutting shit down.

So more or less in three weeks we have the same situation except the GOP can't hold the well being of kids hostage and have to be careful of not breaking a clear promise to address DACA.

Given those were the main two dem goals, this doesn't seem like much of a cave...
The Democrat goal is open borders and amnesty for all, not just the "dreamers".

Look at California, where the government is now threatening to arrest any employer who cooperates with ICE - not just government workers.
Well, the GOP goal was to take away health insurance for sick children so they would all die horribly.

Just look at this factual claim I'm making having to do with a blue state that in a very general way sort of supports my idea or at least doesn't contradict it.

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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by WildCat » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:41 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:Well, the GOP goal was to take away health insurance for sick children so they would all die horribly.

Just look at this factual claim I'm making having to do with a blue state that in a very general way sort of supports my idea or at least doesn't contradict it.
Except that wasn't actually a GOP goal and the Democrat goal actually is open borders, and no enforcement whatsoever of immigration laws. Just like Hillary told the Brazillian bankers in her secret speech detailing her "private position: "My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders"
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by gnome » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:09 pm

There's a long stretch from having a dream and thinking it appropriate for current policymaking.

I think we discussed this before, I dream of a world without nuclear weapons, that doesn't mean I support unilateral disarmament. And commonly supporting reduction treaties and other generally anti-nuclear measures doesn't prove I support unilateral disarmament, even in light of that "dream".
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by Grammatron » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:18 pm

gnome wrote:There's a long stretch from having a dream and thinking it appropriate for current policymaking.

I think we discussed this before, I dream of a world without nuclear weapons, that doesn't mean I support unilateral disarmament. And commonly supporting reduction treaties and other generally anti-nuclear measures doesn't prove I support unilateral disarmament, even in light of that "dream".
We don't need to get into dreams or conspiracy theories. The action of Democratic party since the Amnesty in the 1986 speak volumes. The laws that were meant to prevent illegal immigrants from getting hired have been chipped away; or as mentioned above laws have been enacted to punish people who try to prevent illegal immigrants from getting employed. The enforcement that GOP wanted to come after amnesty never materialized, and just look at all the push back to building a wall.

I don't know how it is nation-wide for Democratic party, but in California there's 0 political will to deal with illegal immigrants other than full acceptance.

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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by WildCat » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:23 pm

Grammatron wrote:I don't know how it is nation-wide for Democratic party, but in California there's 0 political will to deal with illegal immigrants other than full acceptance.
Well, it's not like the backwater Democrats in that insignificant state of California have any influence on national Democratic Party policy right?
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:26 pm

gnome wrote:I think we discussed this before, I dream of a world without nuclear weapons, that doesn't mean I support unilateral disarmament. And commonly supporting reduction treaties and other generally anti-nuclear measures doesn't prove I support unilateral disarmament, even in light of that "dream".
I know it is off topic but that's one crazy dream.

I wonder what the world would look like now but for the threat of nuclear weapons. Probably our worst nightmare, assuming we were here to dream at all.

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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by gnome » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:42 pm

I don't wish we never had them--they did serve an important role, in WW2 and even when few enough nations had them that a rational balance of deterrent was feasible.

But I don't think it remains a good thing to have the ability to wipe life from the Earth so quickly and nearly completely. To counter your concern, I'm not sure there IS an acceptable scenario that gets us there. But I would still hope for one.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by gnome » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:46 pm

Grammatron wrote:
We don't need to get into dreams or conspiracy theories. The action of Democratic party since the Amnesty in the 1986 speak volumes. The laws that were meant to prevent illegal immigrants from getting hired have been chipped away; or as mentioned above laws have been enacted to punish people who try to prevent illegal immigrants from getting employed. The enforcement that GOP wanted to come after amnesty never materialized, and just look at all the push back to building a wall.

I don't know how it is nation-wide for Democratic party, but in California there's 0 political will to deal with illegal immigrants other than full acceptance.
I won't question that as I haven't studied California much.

Personally I think that proposals that target the employers would be more effective and carry less political baggage than demonizing illegals. There are a lot of solutions that might, but both sides benefit from the problem too much, as Abdul would say. The Republicans get a nice supply of outrage and anger at outsiders, and the Democrats get people to pander to. Rich people on either side of the fence get the cheap labor.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:32 am

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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:16 am

So one week to go before the government shuts down again and congress is having a foodfight over a stupid memo.
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by Grammatron » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:11 am

Anaxagoras wrote:So one week to go before the government shuts down again and congress is having a foodfight over a stupid memo.
That's on purpose though.

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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:01 am

I hear Nancy Pelosi had her own mini "filibuster" of sorts.



One more day and it's being reported that the senate has reached a deal that increases spending by some hundreds of billions of dollars (some of which is for disaster relief). Trump also tweeted support for the spending increases. This would finally end the so-called "sequester" spending restrictions. Signs are there won't be another shutdown this time, but nothing's written in stone yet. And DACA is not part of the deal (but neither is funding for Trump's wall). That will be a separate deal later.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/us/p ... trump.html
The accord between Senators Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, and Chuck Schumer of New York, his Democratic counterpart, would raise strict caps on military and domestic spending that were imposed in 2011 as part of a deal with President Barack Obama that was once seen as a key triumph for Republicans in Congress.

The deal would raise the spending caps by about $300 billion over two years. The limit on military spending would be increased by $80 billion in the current fiscal year and $85 billion in the next year, which begins Oct. 1. The limit on nondefense spending would increase by $63 billion this year and $68 billion next year.

But the accord was not without dramatics, and its passage in the House is not a foregone conclusion. As proof of that, Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, the House Democratic leader, took the House floor on Wednesday morning in opposition, protesting that the deal did nothing to bring lawmakers closer to protecting young immigrants brought to the country illegally as children. She then delivered a record-breaking speech that tied up the House for the entire day and into the night.
From the increase in domestic spending, Mr. Schumer said the deal includes $20 billion for infrastructure, $6 billion for the opioid crisis and mental health, $5.8 billion for child care and $4 billion for veterans hospitals and clinics. It also includes almost $90 billion in disaster relief in response to last year’s hurricanes and wildfires.

The agreement includes an additional four-year extension of funding for the Children’s Health Insurance Program, on top of the six-year extension that Congress approved last month.

The deal also lifts the debt limit until March 2019, pushing any future confrontation over that issue until after the midterm elections.
Mr. Ryan urged his members to vote for it: “America will be safer and stronger because of this agreement.” His embrace boosted its chances in the House, where conservatives were cool to it, if not hostile.
So if Ryan's for it, Trump's for it, and McConnell and Schumer are for it, (and Pelosi will come around too, she just has to do this performance art for the activists) I don't see why it wouldn't pass.


The only thing is, this combined with the tax cuts is going to blow up the deficit, but nobody really cares about that when push comes to shove.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: The Government Shutdown

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:32 am

Just got official notice of shutdown.

However, I am essential. So off to work I go.
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