So, where is the damage?

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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So, where is the damage?

Post by ed » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:59 pm

Democrats and the FBI said that irreparable harm would be done, sources and methods revealed etc etc if the memo was released.

It was released.

Would someone be kind enough to inform me of the sooper sekeret stuff that is going to cause the sky to fall?

Anything? Bueller?
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Grammatron » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:18 pm

It makes Democrats look bad

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:25 pm

ed wrote:Democrats and the FBI said that irreparable harm would be done, sources and methods revealed etc etc if the memo was released.

It was released.

Would someone be kind enough to inform me of the sooper sekeret stuff that is going to cause the sky to fall?

Anything? Bueller?
I tend to agree. The damn thing basically ignores the petition it was supposedly about. That the GOP wants to go lengths to discredit people is hardly news. Ted Lieu dismissed it (in advance) as being akin to the Geraldo Rivera Al Capone vault thing, and that was probably the right attitude. In the abstract, this sort of thing is dangerous, but in execution this was pretty harmless.

It might cause damage were it to be rebutted with actual facts and sources rather than innuendo, but that probably isn't going to be necessary.

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by corplinx » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:05 pm

it removes confidence in the FBI and FISA

The Confidence Game is damaged

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by WildCat » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:23 pm

There is no damage, the FBI lied and the Democrats lied.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by ed » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:31 pm

^ this
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by asthmatic camel » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:07 pm

:freedom:
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by ed » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:29 pm

No, not to be sad. Given the hysteria, it is clear to anyone not hopelessly biased, that the dems and FBI were lying thru their teeth.

I think that it is time for a major house cleaning at the FBI.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Pyrrho » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:41 pm

And now the Republicans have an excuse for just such a "purge."

I'm sure there are enough corporate hacks available to play at being FBI agents.

Think it's bad now? Wait.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by corplinx » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:09 am

They were doing a fine job purging the bad eggs when nobody outside was aware and the other guys were in charge.

I'm sorry we got to this point.

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by ed » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:58 am

The bottom line is that the democrats and the FBI lied in order to try to prevent us from reading this document.

Is there any other interpretation?

Thing is that it is amazing that these guys could lie so blatantly and repeatedly and for such an evil purpose and now it is forgotten.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by WildCat » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:08 pm

ed wrote:The bottom line is that the democrats and the FBI lied in order to try to prevent us from reading this document.

Is there any other interpretation?
No, there's not.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:15 pm

ed wrote:The bottom line is that the democrats and the FBI lied in order to try to prevent us from reading this document.

Is there any other interpretation?

Thing is that it is amazing that these guys could lie so blatantly and repeatedly and for such an evil purpose and now it is forgotten.
Yes. A practice of disclosing classified information for political purposes breaks assumptions of trust with intelligence assets and allies which will make important intelligence gathering and sharing more difficult.

That this memo was written in crayon and makes no credible use of the classified information it did release is only relevant as to degree. It is the willingness to do so that is the danger.

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Skeeve » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:38 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
ed wrote:The bottom line is that the democrats and the FBI lied in order to try to prevent us from reading this document.

Is there any other interpretation?

Thing is that it is amazing that these guys could lie so blatantly and repeatedly and for such an evil purpose and now it is forgotten.
Yes. A practice of disclosing classified information for political purposes breaks assumptions of trust with intelligence assets and allies which will make important intelligence gathering and sharing more difficult.

That this memo was written in crayon and makes no credible use of the classified information it did release is only relevant as to degree. It is the willingness to do so that is the danger.
:lol:
Thank you, I needed that.
Okay, back to the OP.

I doubt there are many "assumptions of trust" between governments anymore per say.
NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders after US official handed over contacts

It is probably safe to assume 'other governments' are doing the same to us.

If that is so, there may be a "public perception" of trust left between governments, but I doubt there is much more...
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:38 pm

Skeeve wrote:
If that is so, there may be a "public perception" of trust left between governments, but I doubt there is much more...
Countries sharing intelligence about possible treats is a thing. Five Eyes, etc. That there is some spying going on is expected, but that is a different issue from sharing intelligence for mutual benefit with the understanding it isn't made public.

Or as to someone deciding to spy in the first place. If a potential asset has more reason to fear being exposed for political reasons, the potential asset is less likely to become an asset.

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by ed » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:14 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
ed wrote:The bottom line is that the democrats and the FBI lied in order to try to prevent us from reading this document.

Is there any other interpretation?

Thing is that it is amazing that these guys could lie so blatantly and repeatedly and for such an evil purpose and now it is forgotten.
Yes. A practice of disclosing classified information for political purposes breaks assumptions of trust with intelligence assets and allies which will make important intelligence gathering and sharing more difficult.

That this memo was written in crayon and makes no credible use of the classified information it did release is only relevant as to degree. It is the willingness to do so that is the danger.
They said that the world would end. They lied. It throws the contract between us and them into the hazzard. You cannot appeal to some rule that is roundly ignored by one side. They changed the rules of the game with this episode.

eta. They said, not implied, said, that terrible things would occur if it was released. They said, by implication, that they can be trusted with their power to classify and keep things from us. They lied. All bets are off.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:26 pm

There hasn't been a contract between us and them in a long time.

Both sides have been conveniently ignoring the rules when their own side breaks them for a long time now. This is only one more example.There may have been a time when people cared if their own side broke the rules, but if there was, it was before I was born. But here, now, rules only exist as a weapon against the OTHER side. And that is true from one side of the political spectrum to the other.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by ed » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:20 pm

No. I felt the same with snowden and before him, Ellsberg.

It has nothing to do with sides
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by ed » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:20 pm

T
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:42 pm

I am the last person to jump someone's shit over typos, because that would be hypocritical as hell, but in this case it actually interferes with my understanding of what you wrote. Who did you mean by Ellesberv?
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