So, where is the damage?

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by ed » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:50 pm

Sitti g ina dr office, preoccupied. Meant Ellsberg
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:51 pm

Ah, got it
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by ed » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:19 pm

Hell nyarl, you trust these fuckers less than me and I don't trust them at all. What are we arguing about?
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:27 pm

Not arguing, necessarily. Just saying that the reaction to this memo is 100% predictable and represents nothing new. Flip the political allegiances of the key players and I 100% guarantee that everyone attacking this memo would be defending it and vice versa. In politics, rules are only for the other guys.

I think its why I prefer games to real life. At least in games, the rules apply to everyone.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Doctor X » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:16 pm

To that point notice how "both sides" kept switching on Comey as he fucked up his way during the election.

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:24 pm

Yep. That is a classic example
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by corplinx » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:31 pm

Wrong.

If the Democrats discovered that the GOP was abusing the powers of Government to spy on them, the media would be the ones exposing it and it would be called Watergate.

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by corplinx » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:40 pm

we're living in 1984, just not the one the commies and the hippies think we are

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Grammatron » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:42 pm

corplinx wrote:we're living in 1984, just not the one the commies and the hippies think we are
That one is called Brave New World.

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:45 pm

corplinx wrote:Wrong.

If the Democrats discovered that the GOP was abusing the powers of Government to spy on them, the media would be the ones exposing it and it would be called Watergate.
Except for Fox news, which is now touting the memo and they would then be denying its significance. And the same principle would apply. Damned near everyone who is up in arms about how damaging this is would be "meh, nothing to see here, just the Dems getting into an uproar over nothing" AFTER talking about how releasing the memo would be an existential threat to national security and the Dems would be the ones talking about how this would be/should be sending Republicans to jail. All your Republican friends who are currently pounding on the significance of the memo would be downplaying it. All your Democrat friends who are downplaying it would be acting non-plussed about it. This very thread would have been started by, I dunno, Mentat, rather than ed.

Unlike the guy I am currently using for my avatar, I don't have a convenient Mirror Universe handy to prove my point, but I have seen enough of people in my 50 years in this one to know that is exactly how they would act.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:52 pm

ed wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
ed wrote:The bottom line is that the democrats and the FBI lied in order to try to prevent us from reading this document.

Is there any other interpretation?

Thing is that it is amazing that these guys could lie so blatantly and repeatedly and for such an evil purpose and now it is forgotten.
Yes. A practice of disclosing classified information for political purposes breaks assumptions of trust with intelligence assets and allies which will make important intelligence gathering and sharing more difficult.

That this memo was written in crayon and makes no credible use of the classified information it did release is only relevant as to degree. It is the willingness to do so that is the danger.
They said that the world would end. They lied. It throws the contract between us and them into the hazzard. You cannot appeal to some rule that is roundly ignored by one side. They changed the rules of the game with this episode.

eta. They said, not implied, said, that terrible things would occur if it was released. They said, by implication, that they can be trusted with their power to classify and keep things from us. They lied. All bets are off.
I have heard in the past that a lot of things get "over-classified" by the government. That "national security" is an all-purpose excuse to keep things that might be awkward or embarrassing, or that just don't really need to be secret, from the public. This could be another example, of which there are probably many more that we don't know about.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:56 pm

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by WildCat » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:07 am

RCC: Act II wrote:Yes. A practice of disclosing classified information for political purposes breaks assumptions of trust with intelligence assets and allies which will make important intelligence gathering and sharing more difficult.

That this memo was written in crayon and makes no credible use of the classified information it did release is only relevant as to degree. It is the willingness to do so that is the danger.
Fresh from his newfound belief in exploiting vulnerable workers for poverty wages RCC now confesses his love of government secrets, even if those secrets are intended to cover up corruption and malfeasance.

This really is "Act II", nothing like the old RCC who had principles.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by WildCat » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:10 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:Not arguing, necessarily. Just saying that the reaction to this memo is 100% predictable and represents nothing new. Flip the political allegiances of the key players and I 100% guarantee that everyone attacking this memo would be defending it and vice versa. In politics, rules are only for the other guys.

I think its why I prefer games to real life. At least in games, the rules apply to everyone.
I'll just point out that nearly all GOP Congressmen voted for the Mueller investigation.

100% of Democrats voted against the House Intelligence Committee memo being released, and howled mightily that there would be gloom and doom if it was released.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Nyarlathotep » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:36 am

Nearly Every Democrat "Democrats Good. Republicans Bad"

Nearly Every Republican "Republicans Good. Democrats Bad"

What I find incredibly amusing is that neither side realizes both sides are exactly half right. And the rest of us are just sitting around wishing it was the other half
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by WildCat » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:46 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:Nearly Every Democrat "Democrats Good. Republicans Bad"

Nearly Every Republican "Republicans Good. Democrats Bad"

What I find incredibly amusing is that neither side realizes both sides are exactly half right. And the rest of us are just sitting around wishing it was the other half
Is there something factually untrue about what I said? The GOP voted for the Mueller probe even at the risk it would make them look bad. Every single Democrat, without exception, voted against the memo release. Every single GOP representative voted to release the Democrat "counter memo".

Those are facts, not speculation like you engage in.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by corplinx » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:01 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:
corplinx wrote:Wrong.

If the Democrats discovered that the GOP was abusing the powers of Government to spy on them, the media would be the ones exposing it and it would be called Watergate.
Except for Fox news, which is now touting the memo and they would then be denying its significance. And the same principle would apply. Damned near everyone who is up in arms about how damaging this is would be "meh, nothing to see here, just the Dems getting into an uproar over nothing" AFTER talking about how releasing the memo would be an existential threat to national security and the Dems would be the ones talking about how this would be/should be sending Republicans to jail. All your Republican friends who are currently pounding on the significance of the memo would be downplaying it. All your Democrat friends who are downplaying it would be acting non-plussed about it. This very thread would have been started by, I dunno, Mentat, rather than ed.

Unlike the guy I am currently using for my avatar, I don't have a convenient Mirror Universe handy to prove my point, but I have seen enough of people in my 50 years in this one to know that is exactly how they would act.
I saw Episode 12 and thought it redeemed the show. Then Episode 13 shat the bed.

Let's hijack this shit thread and throw shade at Discovery.

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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Nyarlathotep » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:15 am

I don't know man. I am enjoying it. Granted the latest episode wasn't the best episode, but being the penultimate episode of the series it struck me as being essentially part 1 of a 2 parter. It probably hould have been
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by Edward » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:12 am

corplinx wrote:Let's hijack this shit thread and throw shade at Discovery.
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Re: So, where is the damage?

Post by corplinx » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:21 am

The ham fisted make the empire great again didnt make you cringe under your seat?

LOOK, THEYRE TRYING TO MAKE IT TOPICAL