Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:52 pm

Grammatron wrote:
I would submit that most desirable and threatened ocean property in the world is owned, or access to it is owned, by very wealthy. When we are talking about "saving" those places, we should also not pretend that very wealthy do not stand to benefit from it. Look at Jamaica where the locals have very few places where they can access the beach since it's been slowly getting acquired by wealthy individuals, cruise companies, and private resorts.
It isn't that I don't think I understand, as much as I have trouble understanding what is implied without the conclusion that you are saying that we shouldn't fight climate change because, while maybe Bangladeshis will die in massive numbers as their water becomes undrinkable, rich people will benefit by not losing beachfront property.

Which kinda sounds like Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor except as a radical communist and with climate change instead of a nuclear missile.

I have to be missing something...

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by ed » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:55 pm

I have a theory.

I think that climate change is bullshit. I think that the powers that be have used the jewish media to advance the chicken little argument that the sky is falling so that they can steal with impunity.

If I vanish you'll know I was right.
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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:03 pm

ed wrote:I have a theory.

I think that climate change is bullshit. I think that the powers that be have used the jewish media to advance the chicken little argument that the sky is falling so that they can steal with impunity.

If I vanish you'll know I was right.
The underlined potion is substantially correct, but it does not follow that climate change is bullshit.

And "Jewish" is spelled with a capital letter.

And the Jewish media have gotten a lot less Jewish lately.
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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by Grammatron » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:52 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
I would submit that most desirable and threatened ocean property in the world is owned, or access to it is owned, by very wealthy. When we are talking about "saving" those places, we should also not pretend that very wealthy do not stand to benefit from it. Look at Jamaica where the locals have very few places where they can access the beach since it's been slowly getting acquired by wealthy individuals, cruise companies, and private resorts.
It isn't that I don't think I understand, as much as I have trouble understanding what is implied without the conclusion that you are saying that we shouldn't fight climate change because, while maybe Bangladeshis will die in massive numbers as their water becomes undrinkable, rich people will benefit by not losing beachfront property.
I will try to make it clearer.

We all live on this planet and it's stupid to ruin it or pollute it. I am glad USA has environment laws, I am glad California has strict environmental laws.

However, not all laws and regulations are equal. Some cross over the line of smart policy into the selfish and sinister intentions. As an examples, there are plenty of construction regulations in California that are tied to environment but are really just anti-NIMY legislation for large scale residential constructions. Which in turn contributes to low supply and high rent prices.

To put it another way, just because the something is an environmental regulations or a law, doesn't mean we should stop being skeptical of it's viability, legality, and effectiveness.
Which kinda sounds like Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor except as a radical communist and with climate change instead of a nuclear missile.

I have to be missing something...
First time someone accused me of being a communist, it's kind of amusing but way off the mark. :)

For future reference I hate commies as much as nazis. Which anyone other than Mentat should interpret as that I loathe them and their philosophies of ignorance, bigotry, and hate.

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:24 pm

Grammatron wrote: First time someone accused me of being a communist, it's kind of amusing but way off the mark. :)
Which is why I assumed I had it wrong.

I agree that people cynically use environmental issues to further self-interest at the expense of others. Which is in essence the point of this essay. It just comes at it with a tone that people who hate even remotely liberal stuff are going to find repulsive.

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by shuize » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:35 pm

I just had a discussion with a very good friend re global warming.

The whole conversation bothered me. I admittedly don't know about the subject, but said I had the feeling that it's political on both sides and thus am a bit skeptical of the whole "the science is settled" argument in favor man-made global warming. "Science and politics are separate," he said. My point was that science and politics are not always separate.

Things ended with my friend, for whom I would walk through fire, basically saying that I was on par with flat earthers and practically threatened to disown me unless I admitted that "the science was settled."

WTF?

Am I the unreasonable one here?

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:38 pm

It is scientifically proven that the solution to the problem (any problem really but we're talking about climate change) is to give total control to my favorite faction of the ruling class.

Also, it's not really a "scientific consensus" unless it's enforced by social pressure and shunning if not fines and imprisonment (depending on how important the issue is).
Last edited by Abdul Alhazred on Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by ed » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:39 pm

Sorta like my experience(s).
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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:41 pm

And after all, children will die and being on the wrong side is not only like shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, it's genocide.
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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by shuize » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:49 pm

After my divorce, I probably take many things more personally than I should.

But the idea that he would let something like this affect our friendship ...

What the fuck?

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:50 pm

shuize wrote:I just had a discussion with a very good friend re global warming.

The whole conversation bothered me. I admittedly don't know about the subject, but said I had the feeling that it's political on both sides and thus am a bit skeptical of the whole "the science is settled" argument in favor man-made global warming. "Science and politics are separate," he said. My point was that science and politics are not always separate.

Things ended with my friend, for whom I would walk through fire, basically saying that I was on par with flat earthers and practically threatened to disown me unless I admitted that "the science was settled."

WTF?

Am I the unreasonable one here?
I guess it depends what you mean and what he means by "the science is settled". There certainly is some amount of man-made global warming. But projections out into the future about how bad it will get are uncertain.
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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by ed » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:53 pm

shuize wrote:After my divorce, I probably take many things more personally than I should.

But the idea that he would let something like this affect our friendship ...

What the fuck?

It happened to me twice, almost the same thing. The second time the person started off with the declaration that Gorsuch is a fascist. A statement of fact that brooked no discussion. What do you do with something like that?

Ah ... he's where the claim came from
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/neil- ... ever-club/

Took me 9 seconds to figure it out. My "friend" couldn't be bothered. Tells you something.
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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by shuize » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:07 pm

ed wrote:It happened to me twice, almost the same thing. The second time the person started off with the declaration that Gorsuch is a fascist. A statement of fact that brooked no discussion. What do you do with something like that?
Yeah. I would really hate for this to affect our friendship. But I'm not the one saying "agree with me or else" for fuck's sake.

We've disagreed on politics before. But this is the first time I really felt like telling him to fuck off. And it's not that I am married to the idea that man-made global warming (or is it "climate change" now?) is false. It very well may be true. It's that any skepticism might be viewed as a deal breaker to our friendship. Fuck that. After all the shit we've been through together. Unbelievable.

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by sparks » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:34 pm

If someone is trying to blackmail you with your relationship with them as the highest stakes they can put on being told they're correct, then it just doesn't fucking matter.

Get rid of the fucker and continue to make up your own mind about reality.

Have had two of these in this life in which long term friendships got trashed because I refused to be led around by the nose. :? Sad and hurt, but you know--fuck 'em. Not even that I'm correct and they are wrong, no, just that I will fucking well make up my own mind.

Thank you very fucking much!
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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by shuize » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:57 pm

Yes. It's very disappointing.

As I said, I am not firmly in the anti- global warming camp. But, to steal a line from Glenn Reynolds, I'll believe its a crisis when people who keep telling me its a world ending crisis start acting like its a fucking crisis.

I don't know. Maybe I'm completely wrong. But I resent being told that any skepticism on the subject is equivalent to belief in flat earth. And I really resent the implied threat to trash our friendship.

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by Doctor X » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:22 pm

Someone who tries to force an opinion upon a friend is not a friend.

There are degrees. I do not consider bigots friends and those few I have known who have started exposing racism and similar "isms" I have let go.

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by shuize » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:51 pm

Doctor X wrote:Someone who tries to force an opinion upon a friend is not a friend.

There are degrees. I do not consider bigots friends and those few I have known who have started exposing racism and similar "isms" I have let go.

--J.D.
I have a friend back in the States who believes in all sorts of bullshit. Chemtrails, etc. I entertained it for a while, told him why I thought it was bullshit, then finally said I wasn't interested in discussing it anymore. We still talk. Just not about that.

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by Doctor X » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:08 am

And one can do that.

I have religious friends who know not to preach to me. I do not try to enlighten them. It is a big difference from those trying to change your mind.

The refusal to explain suggests a person who does not know what he is blathering about or simply cannot handle the concept that he could be wrong.

Now I can understand not wishing to engage fools. People do not want to waste time "debating" a creationist since to be a creationist one has to either lie or work to remain ignorant. Should a friend wish to preach creationism to me, may his fairy tale help him.

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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by gnome » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:33 am

shuize wrote: As I said, I am not firmly in the anti- global warming camp. But, to steal a line from Glenn Reynolds, I'll believe its a crisis when people who keep telling me its a world ending crisis start acting like its a fucking crisis.
That seems a very interesting comment. And I hate that I have to specifically say that I'm not being sarcastic--I honestly think that could start a very good discussion. What kinds of behavior would you expect?
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Re: Climate change -- Did "they" just admit it's all left wing BS?

Post by Giz » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:59 am

gnome wrote:
shuize wrote: As I said, I am not firmly in the anti- global warming camp. But, to steal a line from Glenn Reynolds, I'll believe its a crisis when people who keep telling me its a world ending crisis start acting like its a fucking crisis.
That seems a very interesting comment. And I hate that I have to specifically say that I'm not being sarcastic--I honestly think that could start a very good discussion. What kinds of behavior would you expect?
For me, the behavior of the heads of the IPCC has been interesting. Whenever there has been scandal, or misrepresentation that could damage their credibility, they haven’t fallen on their swords to show how seriously we should be taking this situation ... they just carry on as if it doesn’t matter. A distinct difference to how Eisenhower was preparing to resign if DDay failed (because he knew that it was a crisis that would have merited him sacrificing his career).

(As an example, I recall the IPCC reports being riddled with things like: “ claim made in the 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was not peer-reviewed scientific literature – but a media interview “. https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rs-mistake