Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

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Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:47 pm

Progressives storm Democratic primaries

Article is in Politico, but the interesting part is the Democratic Underground comment thread.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210219783
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby gnome » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:20 am

Party has quarrel between its "establishment" and its "ideological core".

Film at 11!
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby Mentat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:25 am

They are out for "blood"
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby WildCat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:27 am

gnome wrote:Party has quarrel between its "establishment" and its "ideological core".

Film at 11!

The problem for Democrats is it's "ideological core" is most motivated to vote in primaries. The result is a far-left moonbat wins the primary who is unelectable in the general election. The same thing happened to the GOP in 2010, where far-right wingnuts won primaries and were slaughtered in the general in races a moderate would have won handily.

I predicted this after Trump won.
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby gnome » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:31 am

This would have happened in 2016 to the GOP, except for Democrats got a moderate-left moonbat that was unelectable in the general. Both sides fucked themselves, and the Democrats just wound up doing so harder.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:10 am

Hillary was not unelectable. And only a "moonbat" to the degree the focus groups seemed to trend that way.

Not just harping on the popular vote, it was really close in some of those states that went for Trump.

Writing off their previous core constituency was a mistake, and so was overconfidence, but they almost made it anyway.
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby WildCat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:18 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Writing off their previous core constituency was a mistake

If you've noticed they're doubling down on that. They don't recognize it's a mistake, or they do recognize it's a mistake but have positioned themselves to the point where trying to bring that group back alienates their current base.

That's the trouble with identity politics, when left to it's natural course you end up labeling half the population victims and half of them deplorables/oppressors. And now they can't move away from that.

November is going to be a shock to Democrats when the "blue wave" turns into a red tide. They've ramped up the excitement level in the base to 11, but all of those voters are in areas where Democrats already have a commanding lead. Making NYC 90% Democrat from 75% Democrat doesn't get more Democrats elected.
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby gnome » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:47 pm

WildCat wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Writing off their previous core constituency was a mistake

If you've noticed they're doubling down on that. They don't recognize it's a mistake, or they do recognize it's a mistake but have positioned themselves to the point where trying to bring that group back alienates their current base.


I don't see how they can be doing both at the same time. Are they ignoring their ideological "core" or are they dominated by it? I hear different claims at different times.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby WildCat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:58 pm

gnome wrote:Are they ignoring their ideological "core" or are they dominated by it? I hear different claims at different times.

If you're a Soviet flag-waving, Che shirt-wearing moonbat you think they're ignoring their ideological core. If you're a moderate, traditional Democrat you think they're dominated by the moonbats.

National policy certainly seems to be dominated by the moonbat wing at the moment. Trump proposes a DACA deal that adds a million more to those Obama protected, plus a path to citizenship, in return for immigration reform that mirrors Canada's system. And Democrats rejected it because they no longer believe in any enforcement of immigration law period, let alone picking only the best of the literally hundreds of millions of people who would like to come here.
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby gnome » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:04 pm

WildCat wrote:
National policy certainly seems to be dominated by the moonbat wing at the moment. Trump proposes a DACA deal that adds a million more to those Obama protected, plus a path to citizenship, in return for immigration reform that mirrors Canada's system. And Democrats rejected it because they no longer believe in any enforcement of immigration law period, let alone picking only the best of the literally hundreds of millions of people who would like to come here.


You've said that before, but I'm not sure what occasion you're referring to. I'm not disagreeing, I'm just losing track. When was this offer extended?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby WildCat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:45 pm

gnome wrote:
WildCat wrote:
National policy certainly seems to be dominated by the moonbat wing at the moment. Trump proposes a DACA deal that adds a million more to those Obama protected, plus a path to citizenship, in return for immigration reform that mirrors Canada's system. And Democrats rejected it because they no longer believe in any enforcement of immigration law period, let alone picking only the best of the literally hundreds of millions of people who would like to come here.


You've said that before, but I'm not sure what occasion you're referring to. I'm not disagreeing, I'm just losing track. When was this offer extended?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/13/tom-cot ... offer.html
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby gnome » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:30 pm

I'm reading up. It looks like the Democrats are mainly taking issue with the changes to legal immigration. Schumer's statement seems to accept that boosting border security will be a part of any bipartisan deal.

FWIW, you've inspired me to pay attention to how the Democrats negotiate and what they ask for on this matter.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby Grammatron » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:34 pm

gnome wrote:I'm reading up. It looks like the Democrats are mainly taking issue with the changes to legal immigration. Schumer's statement seems to accept that boosting border security will be a part of any bipartisan deal.


Does Schumer elaborate on what "boosting border security" will entail?
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Re: Oh look. They are eating each other. Again.

Postby gnome » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:43 pm

Grammatron wrote:
gnome wrote:I'm reading up. It looks like the Democrats are mainly taking issue with the changes to legal immigration. Schumer's statement seems to accept that boosting border security will be a part of any bipartisan deal.


Does Schumer elaborate on what "boosting border security" will entail?


Not in that statement, I don't think.

cnbc wrote:On Tuesday, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said finding a bipartisan compromise to shield the young immigrants and boost border security "should be the focus of all of our energies."


I don't take this as a specific proposal, but as a general agreement with the goal of the compromise.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2


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