Florida School Shooting

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:37 pm

ed wrote:I am noting that as soon as the role of the police came out, the story fell from the front pages.

It is stuff like this that makes me really wonder about our press.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:38 pm

I know, I know
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:56 pm

Good Lord ed.

Have you no shame?

Change that avatar stat! :evil:
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:57 pm

Very little actually.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:01 pm

Better?
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:12 pm

Is there a bleeding eyes smiley? :evil:
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:13 pm



Before we need "good guys with guns", we need "good guys who take warnings seriously."
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:19 pm

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/polit ... otect.html
WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

The decision, with an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia and dissents from Justices John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, overturned a ruling by a federal appeals court in Colorado. The appeals court had permitted a lawsuit to proceed against a Colorado town, Castle Rock, for the failure of the police to respond to a woman's pleas for help after her estranged husband violated a protective order by kidnapping their three young daughters, whom he eventually killed.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:03 pm



and



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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Bruce » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:39 pm

A misdemeanor battery conviction does not prevent him from carrying a firearm.
Don't worry parents. Your kids are safe. The armed ex-convicts are watching over your kids like angels.

Always watching.

It's ok. The police are totally cool with it. It frees up their time so they can hide in the bushes and pull you over for speeding.
Such potential!

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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Witness » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:36 pm

ed wrote:
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
Why do you feed them? :mrgreen:

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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:57 pm

Witness wrote:
ed wrote:
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
Why do you feed them? :mrgreen:
as we say in France: qu'est-ce que c'est?
as we say here in 'Murica: what the fuck are you on about? Speak up?
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by gnome » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:26 am

Ultimately I think it means that they are not accountable to individual victims for failure to interdict a crime, but to voters.

It makes sense from a certain point of view--the police must be able to prioritize limited resources. A simplistic example: If there's a large incident that requires all officers on one part of town, I would not want them to be sued for failure to arrest a grocery store burglar elsewhere the same night.

But in the case where they obviously could and should have acted; and/or did not follow department policy--as a voter I would expect administrative consequences, and if none were forthcoming I would speak and vote against whatever elected official they answered to.

Of course, that requires that my opinion and my vote are worth a damn. YMMV depending on where you are, but at least in theory that's where accountability comes in.

Something nobody asked in the Florida shooting case--is it possible he was acting under a doctrine that he isn't supposed to engage an active shooter without backup? I'm 100% speculating here, but I haven't heard whether his conduct violated his instructions and why.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Pyrrho » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:35 am

@RobertwRuncie

We are asking all media to not fly helicopters over Stoneman Douglas HS campus when students return and school is in session, out of respect for the students, teachers and parents who are making this request. Thank you for your consideration at this sensitive time. #MSDStrong
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Pyrrho » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:37 am

If true, there is a word for this.



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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Doctor X » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:44 am

gnome wrote:Something nobody asked in the Florida shooting case--is it possible he was acting under a doctrine that he isn't supposed to engage an active shooter without backup? I'm 100% speculating here, but I haven't heard whether his conduct violated his instructions and why.
The sheriff directly contradicted that:
When asked what Peterson should have done, the sheriff didn't hesitate in answering, "went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer."
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by gnome » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:05 pm

Guess that settles that.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:38 pm

Even if it were "policy"... jesus, doesn't bureaucracy have it's limits?

Here is some more policy
T
here was rising anger across downtown Manhattan yesterday as more and more stories from survivors of Tuesday's assault converged on the horrific truth: that staff had been instructed to remain - or even return - inside No 2 World Trade Centre after the first tower had been hit and was in flames.
Most were turned back by officials of the Port Authority, which had commissioned and supervised the building of the centre in the Sixties.

Workers had looked across the divide after 8.48am at an inferno in their twin tower, and decided to make a run for it. They were told, however, to remain in their seats.

Others, who had made it down stairwells towards - or even out into - the lobby giving out on to the street and freedom, were told to run back upstairs, so that during the crucial 15 minutes of what should have been escape, there was confusion and a two-way rush along the panic-stricken arteries of life.
I am sure there were significant administrative repercussions.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:39 pm

gnome wrote:Ultimately I think it means that they are not accountable to individual victims for failure to interdict a crime, but to voters
Not what they said. Not accountable is not accountable from a legal standpoint.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Skeeve » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:43 pm

ed wrote:
Even if it were "policy"... jesus, doesn't bureaucracy have it's limits?

Here is some more policy
There was rising anger across downtown Manhattan yesterday as more and more stories from survivors of Tuesday's assault converged on the horrific truth: that staff had been instructed to remain - or even return - inside No 2 World Trade Centre after the first tower had been hit and was in flames.
Most were turned back by officials of the Port Authority, which had commissioned and supervised the building of the centre in the Sixties.

Workers had looked across the divide after 8.48am at an inferno in their twin tower, and decided to make a run for it. They were told, however, to remain in their seats.

Others, who had made it down stairwells towards - or even out into - the lobby giving out on to the street and freedom, were told to run back upstairs, so that during the crucial 15 minutes of what should have been escape, there was confusion and a two-way rush along the panic-stricken arteries of life.
FTFY

I am sure there were significant administrative repercussions.
An old phrase comes to mind "There is no rat, like a bureaucrat.
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