Florida School Shooting

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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:59 pm

gnome wrote:I actually agree with that, though I don't know if any government policy can easily promote that. Has to come from peers and from parents setting a better example. Not sure how to kickstart it.

I was worried you were going more for "women aren't staying with the fathers and marrying them".
Not government except that assistance for single mothers does make it easier.

social pressure works, as I said. Being a literal bastard was not a very good thing and not something that a mother would wish on a child.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:32 pm

Parkland suspect Nikolas Cruz showered with fan mail, donations: report (Fox)
Lovestruck groupies from around the country are showering the Parkland, Fla., gunman Nikolas Cruz with fan mail, including sexually provocative photos and donations, according to a Wednesday report.

One 18-year-old from Texas purportedly professed her love to Cruz in a March 15 letter adorned with smiley faces and hand-drawn hearts, South Florida's Sun-Sentinel reported.

"When I saw your picture on the television, something attracted me to you," the letter said. "Your eyes are beautiful and the freckles on your face make you so handsome."

...
:|
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by WildCat » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:56 pm

sparks wrote:
WildCat wrote:17 dead is worth it if it keeps 1 student out of the school to prison pipeline.
Not if one of the 17 is you, I expect. Now, perhaps I've misunderstood your post. Care to clarify?
Wow!
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by sparks » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:20 am

Yea, well. "Wow!" doesn't really go very far on that clarification thingy. You are however, free to try again should you choose to do so. :) At this point, I'd encourage you to make a second attempt, not for me, but for yourself. :De_Bunk:
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:18 am

Spark is sarcasm-blind. :lmao:
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by WildCat » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:37 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Spark is sarcasm-blind. :lmao:
It is amazing, isn't it?
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by WildCat » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:15 pm

sparks wrote:Yea, well. "Wow!" doesn't really go very far on that clarification thingy. You are however, free to try again should you choose to do so. :) At this point, I'd encourage you to make a second attempt, not for me, but for yourself. :De_Bunk:
This video explains it all.

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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by sparks » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:45 am

Fish-barrel.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Skeeve » Thu May 17, 2018 10:18 am

THEN
Giz wrote:Jeez, it sounds even worse about the Broward deputies :

"When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.
...
NOW
U.S. Deputy Branded a 'Coward' for Staying Outside During Parkland Shooting Gets $8,700 Monthly Pension
:o
The sheriff’s deputy who stayed outside a school while a gunman shot dead 17 people, will be given a monthly pension of nearly $9,000.

Scot Peterson resigned and retired from his post as a resource officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on February 22. He had been captured on CCTV standing outside a door to the school in Parkland, Florida, while suspected gunman Nikolas Cruz went on the rampage, killing 14 students and three officials.
:shock:
...
However, he has been named as a defendant in a wrongful death lawsuit filed by Andrew Pollack, whose daughter Meadow, 18, was among those killed.

"I'm not interested in any money. I just want to expose what a coward [Peterson] was and that he could've saved everybody on the third floor. I don't want him to go anywhere in the country and not have people recognize what a coward he is," Pollack told the Sun Sentinel.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Pyrrho » Thu May 17, 2018 10:52 am

Not sure why they expect an officer with a sidearm to expose himself to superior firepower from a semi-automatic rifle from a shooter whose position was unknown in hallways with no adequate cover. Woulda, shoulda, coulda, etc.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by WildCat » Thu May 17, 2018 11:30 am

Pyrrho wrote:Not sure why they expect an officer with a sidearm to expose himself to superior firepower from a semi-automatic rifle from a shooter whose position was unknown in hallways with no adequate cover. Woulda, shoulda, coulda, etc.
If he didn't know where he was how did he know what type of wespon he had? Can't have it both ways.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Thu May 17, 2018 11:41 am

Because, Pyrrho, it was his fucking job.

We give cops tremendous power over us and have some very limited expectations. One is that they, if the shit hits the fan, do what we might be too afraid to do.

Sorry, no excuses.

ETA. Actually, I am 100% wrong and I apologize. Police have no legal obligation to protect.
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/poli ... google.com

https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2015/ ... alled.html

Actually, I hope that lawsuits are tried against this guy, it will remind people of how much on their own they are.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Giz » Thu May 17, 2018 12:19 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Not sure why they expect an officer with a sidearm to expose himself to superior firepower from a semi-automatic rifle from a shooter whose position was unknown in hallways with no adequate cover. Woulda, shoulda, coulda, etc.
Because why the hell is there an armed officer at the school if not for that very reason? To be hall monitor?

He earned good money in an easy job. The trade was that he was expected, in the extremely unlikely event the shit hit the fan, to go into harms way.

I can't imagine how he could have failed in his job more absolutely.

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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Thu May 17, 2018 2:18 pm

I am safe here in my well defended castle. Having said that let me point out that the cop probably had a beretta 92 or the equivalent in 9mm with a mag that contains 16 rounds. I submit that in a building that advantage conferred by a long arm largely dissipates and such an arm might provide a liability given it's size (not something Lister worries about).

In a building I might well prefer a Glock or Beretta over an ar. Gotta think on that.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Skeeve » Thu May 17, 2018 9:00 pm

ed wrote:Because, Pyrrho, it was his fucking job.
...
ETA. Actually, I am 100% wrong and I apologize. Police have no legal obligation to protect.
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/poli ... google.com

https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2015/ ... alled.html

Actually, I hope that lawsuits are tried against this guy, it will remind people of how much on their own they are.
From that 2nd link.
...
Courts have repeatedly ruled that police and the government in general have no duty to protect you from harm.
So, when it comes down to it, you may end up having to deal with your own protection yourself....

So where the hell do the gun confiscation control folks get off with their shit?
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Giz » Thu May 17, 2018 9:25 pm

The issue is, if he was under no obligation to intervene, then why was he employed there?

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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Doctor X » Thu May 17, 2018 9:41 pm

So he could wait for his pension to come into effect.

Silly.

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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Thu May 17, 2018 10:15 pm

Skeeve wrote: So, when it comes down to it, you may end up having to deal with your own protection yourself....

So where the hell do the gun confiscation control folks get off with their shit?
The political ones are protected by heavily armed guards and laws that would actually be used.

The loudmouths are ignorant tools and/or they live in gated communities or protected high rises.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Skeeve » Tue May 22, 2018 1:53 pm

Another twist on the events in coward Broward County Fla.

Family that took in Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz hit with lawsuits and criticism
Some see them as saviors who opened their home to a grieving young man after his mother died. Others say they were naive or negligent and failed to properly supervise a dangerous 19-year-old and his cache of guns.
...
The Sneads, who say they felt sorry for their son's 19-year-old friend after he was left orphaned, have already been named as defendants in two civil lawsuits connected to the Feb. 14 attack at the Parkland school.
Okay why was he "left orphaned?"
Here’s what we know about Nikolas Cruz, the Florida school shooting suspect
...
The 19-year-old orphan whose mother died last year was charged with murder Thursday in the assault that devastated this sleepy community on the edge of the Everglades.
...
Cruz’s mother, Lynda Cruz, died of pneumonia Nov. 1, and his father died previously, according to the arrest affidavit.
It doesn't say, but I wonder HOW previously his father died and how long he was fatherless. More research needed here, however....

At the risk of :BeatDeadHorse2: there is a "A Key Commonality In School Shooters The Left Refuses To Address."
In the wake of the tragic South Florida high school shooting which ended with 17 deaths, Democrats and their allies in the mainstream media have launched a full-scale attack on the National Rife Association (NRA), Republican politicians, American gun owners, and the Second Amendment. And while there is chatter about so-called "toxic masculinity" bubbling up on left-wing blogs, there is deafening silence regarding a glaring commonality among a majority of school shooters: fatherless homes.

As noted by University of Virginia Professor Brad Wilcox in 2013, "nearly every shooting over the last year in Wikipedia’s ‘list of U.S. school attacks’ involved a young man whose parents divorced or never married in the first place.” Additionally, a study on older male shooters found similar connections to growing up fatherless.

Writing at The Federalist in 2015, Peter Hasson highlighted the fact that of all the shootings on CNN's “27 Deadliest Mass Shootings In U.S. History" list committed by young males since 2005, only one was raised by his biological father.

The most recent Florida school shooter, too, had no father figure, as his adoptive father died when the suspect was just a boy.

Hasson also distilled the jarring corelation between fatherless homes and general male violence:
Violence? There’s a direct correlation between fatherless children and teen violence. Suicide? Fatherless children are more than twice as likely to commit suicide. Dropping out of school? Seventy-one percent of high school dropouts came from a fatherless background. Drug use? According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, “Fatherless children are at a dramatically greater risk of drug and alcohol abuse.” How about guns? Two of the strongest correlations with gun homicides are growing up in a fatherless household and dropping out of school, which itself is directly related to lack of an active or present father.
This clear connection is being lazily and intentionally addressed by the Left — if at all — as more evidence to further squash masculinity, which they've deemed "toxic." (Admitting the importance of the nuclear family and depriving feminists of their "go, girl!" salutes is apparently a bridge too far.)
Can't suggest that those "strong independent women that don't need no man" could maybe not be enough?

Guess Which Mass Murderers Came From A Fatherless Home
As more information slowly seeps out about Dylann Roof, the 21-year-old who murdered nine people at a church in Charleston, South Carolina, one fact should surprise exactly no one: Roof came from a broken home. Roof’s parents divorced three years before he was even born, later reuniting just long enough to produce a child who would later become a mass murderer.

The media loves to find an easy scapegoat for mass shootings, whether it be the pharmaceutical industry, the National Rifle Association, or even Donald Trump. Of course these scapegoats are designed to fit the politically correct narrative, and they are an easy sell (especially when it’s all Donald Trump’s fault, as Americans increasingly love to blame the proverbial 1 percent for their sorrows). Scapegoats serve another purpose, too: they ensure the media can avoid the uncomfortable truth that unstable homes produce unstable individuals.

We Explore Every Angle Except Father Absence
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by xouper » Tue May 22, 2018 4:49 pm

Skeeve wrote:. . . Hasson also distilled the jarring corelation between fatherless homes and general male violence: . . .
You raise an important question.

There may be something to that correlation, or maybe not.

I assume it goes without saying, one must be careful not to confuse correlation with causation*. Although I understand the temptation to look for simple answers to complex issues.

Example: There is a very strong correlation between school shooters and sex: they are almost all male. Does that mean we have identified a causal factor?

As a good skeptic, I would need to see evidence of causation, not just a correlation.

I assume your point was that there is insufficient investigation into the possibility that "unstable homes produce unstable individuals".




________________________________________
* Footnote: See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlati ... _causation