Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
ed
Posts: 32163
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 407 times
Been thanked: 672 times

Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby ed » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:30 pm

Says it right here in the Times today:
Mueller Is Gaining Steam. Should Trump Worry?


Wow.

With each passing day, Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel investigating Russia’s interference in the 2016 election, seems to add another brick to the case he is building — one more indictment, one more interview, one more guilty plea. Mr. Trump and his advisers insist they are not worried because so far none of the charges implicate the president. Yet no one outside Mr. Mueller’s office knows for sure where he is heading and the flurry of recent action seems to be inexorably leading to a larger target.


He's zeroing in. Trump must be sweating.

“When you put that all together, the White House should be extremely worried,” said Benjamin Wittes, editor in chief of Lawfare


A random man providing a random quote.

And what has the estimable Mr. Mueller accomplished?

In the last 10 days, Mr. Mueller has indicted 13 Russians and three Russian companies on suspicion of secretly trying to help Mr. Trump win the election, added new charges against Paul Manafort, who was Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman, and secured a guilty plea from a lawyer tied to Mr. Manafort’s business dealings with pro-Russian figures. The guilty plea on Friday by Rick Gates, the former deputy chairman, raised the pressure on Mr. Manafort.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/us/p ... v=top-news

In all seriousness, am I missing something? I don't follow this story religiously but it seems like he has nothing and that the Times and others suffering from TDS read every move as a telling blow against Trump. My question: Is there a "there" there?
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 25038
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6
Has thanked: 2589 times
Been thanked: 2567 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:56 pm

Depends on what the meaning of "is" is.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 32163
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 407 times
Been thanked: 672 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby ed » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:12 pm

I have no doubt that if Mueller "investigated" 50+ random washington players he would have the same hit rate. In congress, maybe higher. I am wondering what sort of value we are getting for our money.
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 25038
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6
Has thanked: 2589 times
Been thanked: 2567 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:17 pm

Value for our money? From the government? Maybe for folks who invest in Senator rentals.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13313
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 263 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby WildCat » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:34 pm

ed wrote:And what has the estimable Mr. Mueller accomplished?

In the last 10 days, Mr. Mueller has indicted 13 Russians and three Russian companies on suspicion of secretly trying to help Mr. Trump win the election

Actually Manafort's indictment said the goal was to cause chaos and divide us. There were also anti-Trump and pro-Bernie activities documented by Mueller. The "not my President" rally in front of Trump Tower in NYC was organized by Russia.

This is purely spin by the NYT.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 25038
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6
Has thanked: 2589 times
Been thanked: 2567 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:59 pm

Which is kind of funny considering that "opinion leaders" on the left consider the NYT to be a Trump tool.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 21628
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 323 times
Been thanked: 331 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby gnome » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:29 pm

ed wrote:Says it right here in the Times today:
Mueller Is Gaining Steam. Should Trump Worry?



Wups-- Betteridge's law of headlines is now in effect.

The answer is no.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
corplinx
Posts: 19713
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 am
Title: Moderator
Has thanked: 198 times
Been thanked: 622 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby corplinx » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:58 pm

"the noose is tightening..." has been a long refrain of establishment media with deep state ties

part of the Fake News machine

User avatar
ed
Posts: 32163
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 407 times
Been thanked: 672 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby ed » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:49 am

Well, Trump should be well on his way serving his life sentence by now.

What? Still in office?

Cerially folks, wtf? And the press touts "incitements" when they basically gotcha'd guys who should have known better than to talk to them.

Farce? You judge.
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 21628
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 323 times
Been thanked: 331 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby gnome » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:52 am

Can you describe the "gotchas"? It's all too easy to suppose someone slipped up on a disclosure, but it's worth a close look to see if it really was something that could reasonably be considered a mistake instead of a deliberate act.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
ed
Posts: 32163
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 407 times
Been thanked: 672 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby ed » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:16 pm

In the old westerns, rather than take the trouble of hauling mustachioed miscreants to desultory trials, lawmen would often provoke them into drawing first, thus justifying shooting them down where they stood. A modern federal interview of a subject or target is like that. One purpose, arguably the primary purpose, is to provoke the foolish interviewee into lying, thus committing a new, fresh federal crime that is easily prosecuted, rendering the original investigation irrelevant. Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001, which makes it a felony to lie to the feds, is their shiny quick-draw sidearm. This result not an exception; it is the rule. It happens again and again.


Consider George Papadopoulos. The special counsel secured his guilty plea not for improper contact with the Russians but for lying about that contact to the FBI. Consider Michael Flynn. He too pled guilty not to unlawful contact with Russians but to lying to the FBI about that contact. Consider Scooter Libby, or Martha Stewart, or Dennis Hastert, or James Cartwright, all taken down by the feds not for their alleged original misconduct but for lying about it. Even when catching someone in a lie isn't enough to force them to plead guilty, it can add charges to a case. Consider Paul Manafort and Richard Gates, charged not just with substantive crimes but with lying to the FBI about them.


When special counsels or FBI agents ask questions of one of these powerful people, they are not fact-finding. They've already done their homework. They've already gathered facts—almost certainly many more facts than the interviewee knows. They are asking questions the answers to which they can already prove, hoping that the interviewee will tell a provable lie, and thus commit a crime, or at least lock themselves into a feckless story that ties their hands later. The law that makes it a crime to lie to federal investigators does not require the lie to fool the investigators for a nanosecond. A lie must be "material" to be criminal, but that only means that the lie is the kind of statement that could conceivably influence the government, not one that actually did. The FBI can roll up with irrefutable proof of something, ask the target a question hoping for a lie, collect the lie they wanted, and reap a felony conviction.


https://reason.com/archives/2018/02/08/ ... the-feds-a

Tell me Gnome, if that is your real name, how long you have engaged in violations of federal currency laws?

Weasley, sweating Gnome" (indignantly) I NEVER did!! I am a loyal American!!!!

Feds (smirking): So then, how do you explain passing a Canadian Quarter to a newsdealer in Sarasota, witnessed by our operative "Honest" Ed on January 15, 2008?"

WSG: hominahominahomida

Feds (imperiously) Book him Dan-O, Lying to the Feds.

A short while later ...

Image


And a short while after that ...
Image
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
ed
Posts: 32163
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 407 times
Been thanked: 672 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby ed » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:20 pm

Point is that if they want you, they will get you. And it really has nothing to what normal people would think of as guilt. It is fucking gotcha except the penalty is financial ruin and potentially, jail time.

This is the basic injustice of our system. A bad guy wouldn't give a shit. A working stiff still views it as a disgrace and actually has something to loose.
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 21628
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 323 times
Been thanked: 331 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby gnome » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:22 pm

I think you misunderstand me. Descriptively, I completely understand what you're suggesting. I want to consider the specific allegation and see if a "lie from ignorance" is a reasonable conclusion.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Skeeve
Posts: 9772
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:35 am
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: Just a couple of days now then ... to jail

Postby Skeeve » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:09 pm

ed wrote:
In the old westerns, rather than take the trouble of hauling mustachioed miscreants to desultory trials, lawmen would often provoke them into drawing first, thus justifying shooting them down where they stood. A modern federal interview of a subject or target is like that. One purpose, arguably the primary purpose, is to provoke the foolish interviewee into lying, thus committing a new, fresh federal crime that is easily prosecuted, rendering the original investigation irrelevant. Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001, which makes it a felony to lie to the feds, is their shiny quick-draw sidearm. This result not an exception; it is the rule. It happens again and again.


Consider George Papadopoulos. The special counsel secured his guilty plea not for improper contact with the Russians but for lying about that contact to the FBI. Consider Michael Flynn. He too pled guilty not to unlawful contact with Russians but to lying to the FBI about that contact. Consider Scooter Libby, or Martha Stewart, or Dennis Hastert, or James Cartwright, all taken down by the feds not for their alleged original misconduct but for lying about it. Even when catching someone in a lie isn't enough to force them to plead guilty, it can add charges to a case. Consider Paul Manafort and Richard Gates, charged not just with substantive crimes but with lying to the FBI about them.

...
https://reason.com/archives/2018/02/08/ ... the-feds-a

Tell me Gnome, if that is your real name, how long you have engaged in violations of federal currency laws?

Weasley, sweating Gnome" (indignantly) I NEVER did!! I am a loyal American!!!!

Feds (smirking): So then, how do you explain passing a Canadian Quarter to a newsdealer in Sarasota, witnessed by our operative "Honest" Ed on January 15, 2008?"

WSG: hominahominahomida

Feds (imperiously) Book him Dan-O, Lying to the Feds.

A short while later ...

Image


And a short while after that ...
Image

So follow the golden rule, plead the 5th, speak as little as possible, and wait for a lawyer....
Otherwise you may end up like.....
Then Skank Of America could start in...


Return to “Politics & Social Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCBot [Bot] and 0 guests