Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

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Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:08 am

I think we need a separate thread for this.

The latest from House Democrats:

House Democrats introduce bill prohibiting sale of semi-automatic weapons
Washington Examiner
House Democrats have introduced a bill banning semi-automatic firearms in the wake of the Feb. 14 shooting at a high school in Parkland, Fla.

Rep. David Cicilline, D-R.I., announced Monday he is introducing the Assault Weapons Ban of 2018. More than 150 Democrats have signed on in support of the legislation, Rep. Ted Deutch, D-Fla., said.

"Today I joined @RepCicilline and 150+ of my colleagues to introduce the assault weapons ban. It’s time for Congress to listen to the will of a majority of Americans and pass sensible legislation to get these weapons of war off our streets. #NeverAgain #MSDStrong," Deutch tweeted.

...
Yes that includes pistols.

Yes they want a civil war.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by Mentat » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:34 am

Who doesn't?
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by corplinx » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:35 am

So, we're looking at 8 more years of Drumpf then huh?

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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by WildCat » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:41 am

corplinx wrote:So, we're looking at 8 more years of Drumpf then huh?
They sure like firing up the GOP base with this stuff. They really do live in bubbles, they're still talking about a "blue wave" but at this rate they'll lose seats in the House and give the GOP a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by ed » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:46 am

This is simply theater
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by WildCat » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:50 am

Meanwhile in Illinois there's some real fucking idiocy going on. In addition to Democrats pushing laws to limit magazines to 10 rounds and ban "assault weapons" they proposed this doozy of an amendment to the FOID Act: "Provides that each applicant for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card must submit evidence to the Department of State Police that he or she has not been a patient in a mental health facility within the past 10 years"

Now, where's my documentation showing I haven't been in a mental health facility?

These fuckers really do have outright bans as the goal.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:14 am

Great way to stigmatize mental health and deter people who might need help from getting the help they need.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:20 am

Every proposal along these lines violates everybody's civil rights, not just prospective firearms owners.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by WildCat » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:25 am

Anaxagoras wrote:Great way to stigmatize mental health and deter people who might need help from getting the help they need.
Exactly, get help and lose your firearm rights for at least 10 years. If you're a cop or armed security guard you lose your job.

They're literally pressuring people not to get help they need.
Last edited by WildCat on Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by Pyrrho » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:29 am

Lol as if help is available. Certainly not from the cops; they're not qualified to treat mental illness. Certainly not on the government's dime.

But, seriously, people do not often recognize mental illness or take it seriously when they do. That said, statistically, mentally ill people are no more dangerous than normal people. Too easy to say "Mental illness!" Not so easy to predict when a homicidal asshole will carry out an attack.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by WildCat » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:47 am

Pyrrho wrote:Lol as if help is available. Certainly not from the cops; they're not qualified to treat mental illness. Certainly not on the government's dime.
Huh? This is if you enter into a mental health facility, which certainly won't be staffed by the police.
Pyrrho wrote:But, seriously, people do not often recognize mental illness or take it seriously when they do. That said, statistically, mentally ill people are no more dangerous than normal people. Too easy to say "Mental illness!" Not so easy to predict when a homicidal asshole will carry out an attack.
Except when they say they will on social media, tell people they know what they're planning, and even report themselves to police.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by corplinx » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:12 am

If you have a mentally ill relative at your abode and they are acting out, he is referring to the tendency for cops to shoot them 20 times while shouting "stop resisting" if you make the mistake of calling them.

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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by corplinx » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:33 am

Jay Inslee, what a cuck.

He had this embarassing "i suggest less tweeting, more listening" shtick today when he finally had a platform of his own.

The media is lauding him for embarassing himself. They don't get how stupid, shallow, and self serving it was.

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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by gnome » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:33 am

Personally I would just go with the "documented history of violence" as a restrictor, whether due to mental illness or otherwise. Though even that could be overdone.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:14 am

Pyrrho wrote:Lol as if help is available. Certainly not from the cops; they're not qualified to treat mental illness.
I meant help from a mental health facility. I'm not sure exactly what qualifies as grounds for losing your right to own a gun.
Does outpatient counseling or therapy count or only inpatient treatment? Either way, it puts you on their radar screen and potentially could prevent you from holding certain jobs.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by WildCat » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:30 am

There's a guy on a gun board I'm on who had a heart attack a few years ago. He was near death and pumped full of drugs and barely hanging on, was blathering incoherent nonsense because of that. The doctors put him in the mental health wing of the hospital for observation for a few days, he recovered fully. But because he had been transferred to the mental wing Illinois revoked his FOID card and he's been fighting to get it back ever since, spending tens of thousands in attorney fees in the process. It's fucked up. He never had mental issues. In fact prior to that he was an NRA-certified instructor.

Meanwhile they're letting gangbanging gun offenders walk the streets because of the new "affordable bail" program (which often means no bail, just an I-bond), and a lot of them are committing more crimes while out on bail. When they do get sentenced it's very light and they're back out within a year or 2.

It's absolutely fucking nuts.

Man On Electronic Monitoring Had $255,000 Worth Of Dope In His Apartment, Prosecutors Say
Chicago police and federal agents say they found more than $255,000 worth of cocaine and pot when they raided Antwaun Walker’s high-rise apartment in the 300 block of East Wacker Drive. Over 14 pounds of marijuana worth $103,000 and nearly three pounds of cocaine worth $154,000 were recovered along with a handgun, according to prosecutors.

At the time of the raid, Walker was on home electronic monitoring awaiting trial on firearms charges, court records show. Hanging out in Walker’s apartment when police came knocking was Robert Robertson, a 27-year-old felon who’s on parole for a weapons violation.

Both men are charged with Class X felony manufacture-delivery of cocaine and Class X felony manufacture-delivery of cannabis.

Walker, 24, was the target of the search warrant that cops executed at 6:30 p.m. on Valentine’s Day. Police say he is a member of the Mafia Insane Vice Lord street gang. He had been on electronic monitoring since last March when he was charged with eight felony weapons charges after police said they found handguns in the car he was riding in on the West Side.

Judge Sophia Atcherson ordered him held on a $50,000 deposit bond for the narcotics charges. Judge Joseph Clapps then ordered him held without bail for violation of his bond in the pending weapons case.

While Walker served three years for aggravated battery of a police officer in 2011, he has also had some notable successes in Cook County courts.

In 2013, he was sentenced to three years in prison for being a felon in possession of a firearm. The state dropped all charges when Walker appealed.

In 2015, prosecutors charged him with 10 felonies including being a felon in possession of a firearm while on parole after police said they (Wait for it!) found him with a handgun in a car on the West Side. The case went to a bench trial and Judge Alfredo Maldonado found Walker not guilty on all charges.

Robinson was paroled last June after serving 3-1/2 months of a one-year sentence for (It's true!) having two guns in a park on the West Side. The state has revoked his parole and sent him back to Stateville Correctional Center. He is scheduled to be released on June 10.

Participating in the raid were Chicago police gang enforcement officers and agents from the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
At least this time the Feds are involved so they probably get real time this time.

But Chicago pols are sticking to their catch-and-release policy. Let's fuck with the law-abiding gun owners instead.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by WildCat » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:05 am

Meanwhile out in the burbs a man used an evil AR-15 to stop a man from stabbing another:
Sheriff’s Office Investigates Stabbing in Oswego Township.
On February 26, 2018, Kendall County Sheriff’s Deputies responded to the 100 block of Harbor Drive, Oswego Township in reference to a third party report of a subject with a knife and another subject with a firearm. Upon arrival, deputies learned that a neighbor dispute lead to a subject armed with a knife inflicting multiple injuries to another during the dispute. A witness to the incident retrieved an AR-15 style rifle from their residence and was able to stop the attacker with only a threat of force. The witness possessed a valid Firearm Owner’s Identification Card (FOID) and is a concealed carry firearm permit holder. The suspect fled the scene but was quickly located by responding officers. The suspect was taken into custody and transported to the Kendall County Sheriff’s Office where charges are pending at this time. The victim was transported to Rush-Copley Hospital in Aurora for treatment. The incident is still under investigation.
But since the weapon was never fired the gun control advocates won't count it as a defensive gun use.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by corplinx » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:46 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:I think we need a separate thread for this.

The latest from House Democrats:

House Democrats introduce bill prohibiting sale of semi-automatic weapons
Washington Examiner
House Democrats have introduced a bill banning semi-automatic firearms in the wake of the Feb. 14 shooting at a high school in Parkland, Fla.

Rep. David Cicilline, D-R.I., announced Monday he is introducing the Assault Weapons Ban of 2018. More than 150 Democrats have signed on in support of the legislation, Rep. Ted Deutch, D-Fla., said.

"Today I joined @RepCicilline and 150+ of my colleagues to introduce the assault weapons ban. It’s time for Congress to listen to the will of a majority of Americans and pass sensible legislation to get these weapons of war off our streets. #NeverAgain #MSDStrong," Deutch tweeted.

...
Yes that includes pistols.

Yes they want a civil war.
And the paranoid right wingers are proven to be correct.

They're doing victory laps about the dems coming out of the closet on this:

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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by Pyrrho » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:50 am

WildCat wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Lol as if help is available. Certainly not from the cops; they're not qualified to treat mental illness. Certainly not on the government's dime.
Huh? This is if you enter into a mental health facility, which certainly won't be staffed by the police.
That's the trick though, isn't it? Many mentally ill people are never committed to a mental health facility.
Pyrrho wrote:But, seriously, people do not often recognize mental illness or take it seriously when they do. That said, statistically, mentally ill people are no more dangerous than normal people. Too easy to say "Mental illness!" Not so easy to predict when a homicidal asshole will carry out an attack.
Except when they say they will on social media, tell people they know what they're planning, and even report themselves to police.
Yup. And as they say, "denial isn't just a river in Egypt." People either don't take it seriously or they don't report it...and as we've seen, even when it's reported it may not be followed up on...and even when it's followed up on nothing may come of it.

Here's what David French at the National Review suggests:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/ ... ider-grvo/
A Gun-Control Measure Conservatives Should Consider

What if, however, there was an evidence-based process for temporarily denying a troubled person access to guns? What if this process empowered family members and others close to a potential shooter, allowing them to “do something” after they “see something” and “say something”? I’ve written that the best line of defense against mass shootings is an empowered, vigilant citizenry. There is a method that has the potential to empower citizens even more, when it’s carefully and properly implemented.

It’s called a gun-violence restraining order, or GVRO.

While there are various versions of these laws working their way through the states (California passed a GVRO statute in 2014, and it went into effect in 2016), broadly speaking they permit a spouse, parent, sibling, or person living with a troubled individual to petition a court for an order enabling law enforcement to temporarily take that individual’s guns right away. A well-crafted GVRO should contain the following elements (“petitioners” are those who seek the order, “the respondent” is its subject):

1 It should limit those who have standing to seek the order to a narrowly defined class of people (close relatives, those living with the respondent);

2 It should require petitioners to come forward with clear, convincing, admissible evidence that the respondent is a significant danger to himself or others;

3 It should grant the respondent an opportunity to contest the claims against him;

4 In the event of an emergency, ex parte order (an order granted before the respondent can contest the claims), a full hearing should be scheduled quickly — preferably within 72 hours; and

5 The order should lapse after a defined period of time unless petitioners can come forward with clear and convincing evidence that it should remain in place.
All this assumes that the bureaucracy is capable of actual work.
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Re: Gun control in the USA (thread to discuss any specific proposed legislation)

Post by Doctor X » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:00 am

Work?

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