Trade war?

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Witness
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Re: Trade war?

Post by Witness » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:15 am

China takes out anti-trade war ads in Des Moines Register

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China Daily, an English-language publication owned by the Chinese government, took out four pages of sponsored content in Sunday's Des Moines Register highlighting the negative effects of President Trump's trade war.
https://www.axios.com/trump-trade-war-c ... 03c43.html

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Re: Trade war?

Post by Grammatron » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:07 am

That's literally political propaganda aimed at influencing an election.

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Re: Trade war?

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:32 am

Grammatron wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:07 am
That's literally political propaganda aimed at influencing an election.
Or aimed at influencing trade policy. Does it mention specific candidates for office or take a position on who to vote for in any election?
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Re: Trade war?

Post by WildCat » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:55 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:32 am
Grammatron wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:07 am
That's literally political propaganda aimed at influencing an election.
Or aimed at influencing trade policy. Does it mention specific candidates for office or take a position on who to vote for in any election?
Did the Russian Facebook ads?
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Re: Trade war?

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:01 pm

I think so. Remember Jesus arm wrestling Satan? ;)
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Re: Trade war?

Post by gnome » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:01 pm

I would put the difference at transparency. If a foreign someone or foreign organization that does not conceal their identity wants to advocate, that's not a bother to me as long as applicable laws are followed.

Hell, can probably scrap "foreign" in the above criteria.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Trade war?

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:44 pm

That's a good point. It says right at the top, "Section Sponsored by China Daily". With those Russian Facebook ads, it was far from obvious who was behind them. Which is not to say that they were effective. I have no idea.
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Re: Trade war?

Post by gnome » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:28 pm

I have my doubts that their efforts changed the outcome of the election.

What I do think is that they fed a lot of "your opponent is not only wrong, but is evil" into our citizens. Yes, we give ourselves plenty of that already, but I think it was a non-trivial amount added. I don't think I saw before this time around such a proliferation of intentionally inflammatory and inaccurate content. That was always a problem but it seemed to explode this time. It reminds me of the time way back, say around Windows 95-98, when I began realizing that constant degradation of performance was not a built-in flaw of operating systems but that most machines were getting clogged with spyware--before countermeasures were common.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Trade war?

Post by Grammatron » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:38 pm

gnome wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:28 pm
I don't think I saw before this time around such a proliferation of intentionally inflammatory and inaccurate content.
Only because there was no social media before that was used by such a high percentage of voting population. And I think it was always there you just never saw it because it stayed relatively local.

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Re: Trade war?

Post by Skeeve » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:42 pm

gnome wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:28 pm
I have my doubts that their efforts changed the outcome of the election.

What I do think is that they fed a lot of "your opponent is not only wrong, but is evil" into our citizens.
...
Yuuuge snip
...
Folks here were calling Hillary HER TURN The 3VIL for years....wtf!
Is this really news?
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: Trade war?

Post by gnome » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:46 pm

Skeeve wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:42 pm
gnome wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:28 pm
I have my doubts that their efforts changed the outcome of the election.

What I do think is that they fed a lot of "your opponent is not only wrong, but is evil" into our citizens.
...
Yuuuge snip
...
Folks here were calling Hillary HER TURN The 3VIL for years....wtf!
Is this really news?
It is if it becomes more common and stronger of an outlook. It's not a lightswitch. Multiple things feed in, and more does more damage.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Trade war?

Post by gnome » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:47 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:38 pm
gnome wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:28 pm
I don't think I saw before this time around such a proliferation of intentionally inflammatory and inaccurate content.
Only because there was no social media before that was used by such a high percentage of voting population. And I think it was always there you just never saw it because it stayed relatively local.
I think we would have seen more of it in 2012, were that the case. Social media was firmly established by then.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Trade war?

Post by Grammatron » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:24 pm

I think we are using different definitions of firmly established. What's yours?

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Re: Trade war?

Post by Witness » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:47 am

gnome wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:01 pm
I would put the difference at transparency. If a foreign someone or foreign organization that does not conceal their identity wants to advocate, that's not a bother to me as long as applicable laws are followed.

Hell, can probably scrap "foreign" in the above criteria.
I mostly agree (citizens are adults, &c.), but does the Chinese (or other) government reciprocate by allowing foreign propaganda, even when clearly labeled as such? Hmmm…

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Re: Trade war?

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:13 am

Witness wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:47 am
gnome wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:01 pm
I would put the difference at transparency. If a foreign someone or foreign organization that does not conceal their identity wants to advocate, that's not a bother to me as long as applicable laws are followed.

Hell, can probably scrap "foreign" in the above criteria.
I mostly agree (citizens are adults, &c.), but does the Chinese (or other) government reciprocate by allowing foreign propaganda, even when clearly labeled as such? Hmmm…
Probably not. They maintain very tight control over all forms of media, as I understand it.

I also doubt that Russia would allow some American equivalent of RT to freely broadcast in Russia.

If we're going to worry about foreign propaganda and its potential for influencing American elections, I think a whole TV network is a larger concern than a clearly labeled paid advertisement in a regional newspaper.
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Re: Trade war?

Post by Grammatron » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:04 am

Or you know, both and more if need be.

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Re: Trade war?

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:55 am

OK. So what do we do about it?

Do we want the government to have the power to censor foreign propaganda?
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Re: Trade war?

Post by Doctor X » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:12 am

Nuke it from orbit.

Only way to be sure.

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Re: Trade war?

Post by gnome » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:04 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:24 pm
I think we are using different definitions of firmly established. What's yours?
By 2012 facebook had about 57% of the US population as users.

https://www.recode.net/2018/3/1/1706320 ... arch-users

It's about 10% higher over the last six years, but I would argue not a fundamentally different situation.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Trade war?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:05 pm

Crop chop: China shuns U.S. soybeans amid trade war, turns to Brazil (Reuters)
SINGAPORE/BEIJING (Reuters) - China’s soybean processors are snapping up record volumes of Brazilian cargoes for shipment in the fourth quarter, curbing purchases of U.S. crops in North America’s peak marketing season as the trade war between Washington and Beijing intensifies.

That shift away from U.S. beans by China, which takes more than 60 percent of the commodity traded worldwide, will pile further pressure on benchmark Chicago Board of Trade prices Sv1 after they plumbed 10-year lows last week.

...
1) If you read the first two words of the headline as "chop chop" you are a racist.

2) Story leaves out the whole issue of genetically modified soybeans making your balls atrophy.
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