The March for Life

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 47541
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm
Has thanked: 770 times
Been thanked: 1419 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:13 pm

Doctor X wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Murder, by definition, is unjustifiable.


No, it is not.

I refer you to the observation regarding declarations I made previously.

--J.D.


Unless you are talking about a flock of crows or using it in the slang sense of "It was murder getting that piano up the stairs" every definition of murder calls it the unlawful talking of a human life. Unlawful being the key word. Unlawful presumes unjustifiable
Bango Skank Awaits The Crimson King!

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 66408
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3185 times
Been thanked: 2015 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Doctor X » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:40 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:Unless you are talking about a flock of crows or using it in the slang sense of "It was murder getting that piano up the stairs" every definition of murder calls it the unlawful talking of a human life.


They do not. You have to research the origins of the term. Let us just make clear prior to "lawful" and "unlawful." Nevertheless, this is awesome since it moves us to "law":
[highlight=yellow]More strictly, however, it denoted secret murder[/highlight] Even the OED suffers from using the word in its definition!, which in Germanic antiquity was alone regarded as (in the modern sense) a crime, open homicide being considered a private wrong calling for blood-revenge or compensation. Even under Edward I, Britton explains the AF. [highlight=yellow]murdre only as felonious homicide of which both the perpetrator and the victim are unidentified.[/highlight]


Abortion rather fits the definition of "secret" rather than "open" homicide.

Unlawful being the key word. Unlawful presumes unjustifiable


So changing a law changes justification? No, not really. By your argument it is and is not depending upon your geographic location. Hardly the standard necessary for progress.

You may persist in trying to argue through definitions or you could recognize the error the poster made and move forward.

It does not matter to me what a man's business is.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 69370
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 2769 times
Been thanked: 1059 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:05 pm

I'm pro-choice myself, but it's a weak argument to rely on a changeable legal definition.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
Cloverlief
Posts: 5022
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:59 pm
Location: Here, there or somewhere
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Cloverlief » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:12 am

ed wrote:
"Nobody". OK. So then is the principle that if something is a threat rarely, we should not legislate against it?


Prove that it people have abortions in the third trimester just because.

Also again for the people in the back, ABORTION IS NOT MURDER, but thanks for playing...in the rain.

ed wrote:They do. I think that suicide is a completely seperate issue .


Well everyone is entitled to be wrong, and you are wrong. You just like that the number goes down when you eliminate all other causes of gun deaths. Why is it you can justify almost 20,000 people being killed by guns in a year? Why is that a better number?

ed wrote:Sorry, no. Kids don't organize big protests with professionally printed signs. Astroturf.


We already covered this point, and you are still wrong.

ed wrote:I demand that current laws be enforced. Then we can talk. Do you know anything about gun laws?


Actually Ed, I do. I also happen to know they are sporadic and dependent on the state, and they are also sporadically enforced and there are plenty of loopholes. And no state requires that a person take a practical or written exam to shoot a gun nor requires people to show that they can safely store and maintain their weapon. Sorry to make you cry....again....in the rain.


ed wrote:With respect, you are clueless. Repealing an article in the Bill of Rights has zero precedent and is frightening in it's import. There are some that would like to do the same with the First.


Actually amendments have been repealed before, and so therefore there is precedence. The 21st Amendment repealed the 18th amendment. So yeah, you are the clueless one. Perhaps consider taking a civics class or something.

ed wrote:4 times. OK


And yet I am still here. And you are still wrong.

ed wrote:
Don't be absurd. I am simply establishing that life, per se, is not your concern, trendy politics are. That is to say that your position is unprincipled in the most literal sense. Arm waving about third trimester abortions and abortion in general, conjuring up irrelevancies when presented with a totally human cause of major death that could be easily (though inconveniently) lessened all speak to trendy politics rather than a position based on principle. Your demand for laws and changing the constitution without the slightest evidence that you have the most meager understanding of the state of gun laws in the US fundamentally undermines your arguments.

How about this: Make it federal law that all sworn law enforcement professionals have a legal duty to defend people. That does not exist now and that is why no lawsuit against the cops in parkland will prevail. Did you know that LE is not legally obligated to protect you? Did you?


The only thing that you have made clear is that your love of your guns is more important than human lives and you will twist facts to suit your warped wold view anyway you can.
Chani

User avatar
Cloverlief
Posts: 5022
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:59 pm
Location: Here, there or somewhere
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Cloverlief » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:21 am

WildCat wrote:1. "well regulated", in the 2A, means "well-practiced and proficient". It has nothing to do with government regulations, and a "well regulated militia" is defined in Federalist No. 29. Nowhere in the 2A does it suggest that arms be "well regulated".


So by all means, where are the people who access to the guns have to prove they are "well-practiced and proficient" and where do they sign up for the militia?

WildCat wrote:2.What other right requires a license to practice it in your own home? And on what legal basis is one ever liable for misuse of an item after it is stolen? And when has registration ever been useful in preventing or solving crimes? A few minutes with a Dremel tool and any gun is untraceable anyway. Registration is primarily a means to prevent poor people from owning firearms, as registration fees are expensive and require yearly renewals.


Well actually you are wrong about the dremel being able to erase the serial code. It actually can be picked up using a variety of scanning methods. It is really cool. We had a forensic expert when I was in college come in and show us for one of my advanced biochem classes.

WildCat wrote:As for suicide there are many methods equally as effective as firearms. And these are the methods people use when they really want to commit suicide, rather than the methods used when they just want attention. The USA suicide rate is right at the western European average, despite the country being awash in guns. Guns only change the method of suicide, not the rate of suicide. And be honest here - even single-shot muzzleloaders would have to be banned to prevent gun suicides , because suicides don't require more than 1 shot. And even then the suicide rate would remain the same as people just hang themselves, or jump off of high places, or lay on the 3rd rail or in front of a train, or drive into a wall at 80 mph or the myriad other ways to do it.


So we should make it easy? Guns are point and click. You don't have to know how to use one, only how to pull the trigger. Most people would have no idea how to efficiently tie a noose or have access to the proper pills or even how many to take and have you tried to gas yourself in a garage? Suicide is not easy without a gun.

WildCat wrote:Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world despite being virtually gun-free.

And I'm not willing to give up my rights to effective self defense solely to virtue signal.


Japan has a cultural acceptance of suicide. You know what Japan doesn't have? A lot of suicides using guns.

Yes, as with Ed, your love of guns is more important that actual life and your perceptions of "protection" even though you are more likely to kill a family member, but whatevs.
Chani

User avatar
Cloverlief
Posts: 5022
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:59 pm
Location: Here, there or somewhere
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Cloverlief » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:22 am

Doctor X wrote:People declare things as if declaration makes them so.

Abortion, however, is murder. The question is whether or not it is justifiable homicide.

In the rain.

--J.D.


No it isn't. Murder requires life to be present and there are rules that define life and a fetus does not meet those rules.

Sorry to make you cry.
Chani

User avatar
Cloverlief
Posts: 5022
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:59 pm
Location: Here, there or somewhere
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Cloverlief » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:24 am

ed wrote:ScreenShot357.jpg

Just wanna cross post the UK experience here.


In Australia when the stricter guns laws were brought in in 1996, the murder rate has appreciably dropped. But thanks for playing.
Chani

User avatar
Cloverlief
Posts: 5022
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:59 pm
Location: Here, there or somewhere
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Cloverlief » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:25 am

Doctor X wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Murder, by definition, is unjustifiable.


No, it is not.

I refer you to the observation regarding declarations I made previously.

--J.D.


And you are wrong. And you don't even get rain. You are just plain wrong.
Chani

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 20768
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1306 times
Been thanked: 1092 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:47 am

ed wrote:ScreenShot357.jpg

Just wanna cross post the UK experience here.




For comparison:

Image
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 66408
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3185 times
Been thanked: 2015 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Doctor X » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:07 am

To be fair, there is no Detroit or State of Louisiana in England.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13442
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 271 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by WildCat » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:24 am

Cloverlief wrote:
WildCat wrote:1. "well regulated", in the 2A, means "well-practiced and proficient". It has nothing to do with government regulations, and a "well regulated militia" is defined in Federalist No. 29. Nowhere in the 2A does it suggest that arms be "well regulated".


So by all means, where are the people who access to the guns have to prove they are "well-practiced and proficient" and where do they sign up for the militia?

There isn't and never was a requirement to be part of any well regulated militia to own firearms. That's why the 2nd clause says "the people" and not "the militia".

Cloverlief wrote:
WildCat wrote:2.What other right requires a license to practice it in your own home? And on what legal basis is one ever liable for misuse of an item after it is stolen? And when has registration ever been useful in preventing or solving crimes? A few minutes with a Dremel tool and any gun is untraceable anyway. Registration is primarily a means to prevent poor people from owning firearms, as registration fees are expensive and require yearly renewals.


Well actually you are wrong about the dremel being able to erase the serial code. It actually can be picked up using a variety of scanning methods. It is really cool. We had a forensic expert when I was in college come in and show us for one of my advanced biochem classes.

No, it can't unless it was done poorly. And anyone in the business of running guns to criminals isn't going to be doing a half-assed job of it.

Cloverlief wrote:
WildCat wrote:As for suicide there are many methods equally as effective as firearms. And these are the methods people use when they really want to commit suicide, rather than the methods used when they just want attention. The USA suicide rate is right at the western European average, despite the country being awash in guns. Guns only change the method of suicide, not the rate of suicide. And be honest here - even single-shot muzzleloaders would have to be banned to prevent gun suicides , because suicides don't require more than 1 shot. And even then the suicide rate would remain the same as people just hang themselves, or jump off of high places, or lay on the 3rd rail or in front of a train, or drive into a wall at 80 mph or the myriad other ways to do it.


So we should make it easy? Guns are point and click. You don't have to know how to use one, only how to pull the trigger. Most people would have no idea how to efficiently tie a noose or have access to the proper pills or even how many to take and have you tried to gas yourself in a garage? Suicide is not easy without a gun.

Suicide is very easy without a gun, as Japan and western European countries provide ample proof of.

Cloverlief wrote:
WildCat wrote:Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world despite being virtually gun-free.

And I'm not willing to give up my rights to effective self defense solely to virtue signal.


Japan has a cultural acceptance of suicide. You know what Japan doesn't have? A lot of suicides using guns.

Yes, as with Ed, your love of guns is more important that actual life and your perceptions of "protection" even though you are more likely to kill a family member, but whatevs.

There's also a cultural acceptance of suicide in the USA. Physician-assisted suicide is even legal in at least one state.

And no, I'm not "more likely to kill a family member". I'm not a criminal. I'm not a jagoff gangbanger either. 80% of murder victims have felony records. Most others associate with felons and other criminals. I don't fit that category, and your bullshit statistics don't bother studying the risk for legal gun owners who aren't living a criminal lifestyle because they're interested only in churning out anti-gun propaganda. If you run a drug stash house for the local street gang and a rival gang breaks in and shoots you and steals the stash your bullshit study counts it as "death because of a gun in the home". yes, even if the gun was brought there by the murderer.

Tell me, are you willing to give up the rights in the 4th and 5th Amendment to save lives? Because living in such a police state surely lowers murder rates. If your answer is "no" then you know exactly how I feel and reject the deprivation of rights for exactly the same reasons I do. And you're therefore not morally superior in any way, shape, or form so get off your high horse.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 66408
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3185 times
Been thanked: 2015 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Doctor X » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:10 am

0.999999999999999 . . . ≠ 1.0

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13442
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 271 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by WildCat » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:29 am

Al Sharpton's half-brother arrested for a gun murder a day after participating in the "March For Our Lives":
The half-brother of Rev. Al Sharpton, also an activist whose group participated in Saturday’s anti-gun March For Our Lives, has been charged in a Sunday shooting death in Dothan, Ala.

Dothan police said that Rev. Kenneth Glasgow was the driver in a car linked to the murder of 23-year-old Breunia Jennings of Dothan by passenger Jamie Townes, 26.

Dothan Police Chief Steve Parrish said that Glasgow and Townes allegedly searched for Jennings, who they believe had stolen Townes’ car. When they found her, Townes allegedly shot Jennings as she drove, hitting her in the head. She died later.

“Instead of him notifying law enforcement, he took matter in his own hands and jumped in Mr. Glasgow's vehicle to find Breunia Jennings," said Parrish, according to a report in the Dothan Eagle.

While police do not believe Glasgow, 52, was the triggerman, under Alabama’s aiding and abetting law, he is is culpable for murder.

Dothan is about 110 miles south of Montgomery, Ala.

Sharpton and Glasgow have been activists on projects together. Glasgow is an ex-convict who started an Alabama ministry called The Ordinary People Society. He has recently been campaigning to restore voting rights for convicts.

His group participated in the Saturday anti-gun march in Dothan. “The shooting occurred late Sunday night. I do not know where he was prior to the incident. It has been reported by several local outlets that he attended a similar event on Saturday,” said a police spokesman.

In 2013, Glasgow teamed with Sharpton to protest the murder of Trayvon Martin in Florida.

He has also led protests against police violence.

His website shows a picture of him with 2016 presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton.


Maybe we should just ban Democrats from having guns?
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 47541
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm
Has thanked: 770 times
Been thanked: 1419 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:26 am

WildCat wrote:Maybe we should just ban Democrats from having guns?


First advocating censorship, now Advocating that people should lose rights based on having politics he dislikes

Your mask is dropping, WC
Bango Skank Awaits The Crimson King!

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13442
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 271 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by WildCat » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:34 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:
WildCat wrote:Maybe we should just ban Democrats from having guns?


First advocating censorship, now Advocating that people should lose rights based on having politics he dislikes

Your mask is dropping, WC

Jesus fucking Christ, you're as clueless as sparks.

Meanwhile...

“Who the hell gave David Hogg the authority to put on his white man’s burden costume to save me from myself by marching to restrict my right to own a gun that at one point I wasn’t considered human enough to own? This is the shit we’re cosigning?” –Colion Noir

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY9BHwyZ9Mo
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Mentat
Posts: 10271
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Hangar 18
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 124 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Mentat » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:38 am

Wildcat has long advocated disarming liberals and minorities; this isn't a new thing.
It's "pea-can", man.

Lapis Sells . . . But Who's Buying?

User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 47541
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm
Has thanked: 770 times
Been thanked: 1419 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:39 am

Mentat wrote:Wildcat has long advocated disarming liberals and minorities; this isn't a new thing.


Can't wait until the mask drops the rest of the way
Bango Skank Awaits The Crimson King!

User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 47541
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm
Has thanked: 770 times
Been thanked: 1419 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:41 am

WildCat wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
WildCat wrote:Maybe we should just ban Democrats from having guns?


First advocating censorship, now Advocating that people should lose rights based on having politics he dislikes

Your mask is dropping, WC

Jesus fucking Christ, you're as clueless as sparks.


Hey, you're side is winning. You should wear your hatred proudly. There won't really be any repercussions for it.
Bango Skank Awaits The Crimson King!

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13442
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 271 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by WildCat » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:43 am

Nyarl, seriously, do you really want to act as stupid as Mentat?
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 47541
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm
Has thanked: 770 times
Been thanked: 1419 times

Re: The March for Life

Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:46 am

I am not the one advocagting censorship nor am I the one saying people's right's should be stripped because they belong to a political party I hate.

And somehow I am the bad guy here? I am the one in the wrong? Fuck off with that.

And its doubly puzzling because you're side is winning. You guys can do whatever the fuck you want to those you hate. It's open season. But for some reason you are pretending otherwise, I don't get it.
Bango Skank Awaits The Crimson King!