Fuck it, legalize it all!

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:08 pm

Met Police chief: Social media leads children to violence (BBC)
The UK's top police officer has blamed social media for normalising violence and leading more children to commit stabbings and murders.

Met Police commissioner Cressida Dick told the Times social media sites "rev people up" and make street violence "more likely".

Fatal stabbings in England and Wales are at their highest levels since 2011.

...
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by ed » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:16 pm

Fuckers like Clooney have made firearms the preferred method for dispute resolution. Hollywood has a lot to answer for in that regard but they would, I am sure, say that they are protected by the First Amendment. maybe we should amend it. Plenty of precedent, right?
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:59 pm

Clooney?

I assume you mean George of that ilk?

How so?
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by sparks » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:12 pm

WildCat wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:No, but someone is more likely to survive a hanging, and hanging isn't easy nor is it point and click like guns.
People don't survive hangings and hanging is simple.
Actually people do, and not as simple as pointing and clicking a gun at your head.
It's far simpler to jump off a bridge or other high place.
Again, suicide numbers in countries with strict gun control laws are identical to USA suicide rates. You are not going to reduce suicides through gun control, and certainly not through the magazine capacity limits and "assault weapon" bans being pushed now. And yet here we have people like you citing suicide numbers as a reason to pass these sorts of bans.
Saved due to the epic fail. It sees the facts, yet ignores them in favor of it's fantasy world. Wow. It's much worse than I thought. We're gonna need a bigger boat. :)
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:41 pm

sparks wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:No, but someone is more likely to survive a hanging, and hanging isn't easy nor is it point and click like guns.
People don't survive hangings and hanging is simple.
Actually people do, and not as simple as pointing and clicking a gun at your head.
It's far simpler to jump off a bridge or other high place.
Again, suicide numbers in countries with strict gun control laws are identical to USA suicide rates. You are not going to reduce suicides through gun control, and certainly not through the magazine capacity limits and "assault weapon" bans being pushed now. And yet here we have people like you citing suicide numbers as a reason to pass these sorts of bans.
Saved due to the epic fail. It sees the facts, yet ignores them in favor of it's fantasy world. Wow. It's much worse than I thought. We're gonna need a bigger boat. :)
Please explain how it is fantasy. It does not fail as far as I see. You fail for trying to refute it without a substantive rebuttal. Would you like to try again?

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by sparks » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:44 pm

No. Facts are facts, WC insists on saying that suicide numbers are not, in fact, less in countries with strict gun control compared with other countries without same.

And in this he is wrong.

Look it up.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:18 pm

sparks wrote:No. Facts are facts, WC insists on saying that suicide numbers are not, in fact, less in countries with strict gun control compared with other countries without same.

And in this he is wrong.

Look it up.
I did. There seems to be no correlation.

Here's one chart. Feel free to use your own.
Image
Tick the countries with strict gun laws.

Looks like we are right-smack-dab in the middle. But we have more guns than god.

He is correct.
Last edited by Rob Lister on Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by ed » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:20 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Clooney?

I assume you mean George of that ilk?

How so?
Image

Go look at redbox or some place where the promo pictures for movies are displayed. Look at the incidence of firearms. Look at the glorification of firearms by Hollywood. They are the ones with blood on their hands.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by WildCat » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:37 pm

sparks wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:No, but someone is more likely to survive a hanging, and hanging isn't easy nor is it point and click like guns.
People don't survive hangings and hanging is simple.
Actually people do, and not as simple as pointing and clicking a gun at your head.
It's far simpler to jump off a bridge or other high place.
Again, suicide numbers in countries with strict gun control laws are identical to USA suicide rates. You are not going to reduce suicides through gun control, and certainly not through the magazine capacity limits and "assault weapon" bans being pushed now. And yet here we have people like you citing suicide numbers as a reason to pass these sorts of bans.
Saved due to the epic fail. It sees the facts, yet ignores them in favor of it's fantasy world. Wow. It's much worse than I thought. We're gonna need a bigger boat. :)
And yet you can't explain why it's an "epic fail". Frankly you're too stupid to do so, even if it were which it isn't.

Because we both know you won't be showing how I'm wrong, don't we?
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by WildCat » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:41 pm

But think of all those suicides that would be prevented if we had "assault weapon" bans and magazine capacity limits! Just think of all those people who would change their minds after shooting themselves 10 times before they could reload.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:50 pm

ed wrote:Go look at redbox or some place where the promo pictures for movies are displayed. Look at the incidence of firearms. Look at the glorification of firearms by Hollywood. They are the ones with blood on their hands.
By that line of "reasoning" (in this context a term of art meaning horseshit), Alice in Wonderland encourages beheading because the Queen of Hearts goes around saying "off with his head".

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:58 pm

WildCat wrote:But think of all those suicides that would be prevented if we had "assault weapon" bans and magazine capacity limits! Just think of all those people who would change their minds after shooting themselves 10 times before they could reload.
Hmm.

Which is easier to get hold of? And a surer kill?

A firearm? Or 50 oxycodone?

If you're on Medicaid you can get the oxycodone almost for free.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by ed » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:03 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
WildCat wrote:But think of all those suicides that would be prevented if we had "assault weapon" bans and magazine capacity limits! Just think of all those people who would change their minds after shooting themselves 10 times before they could reload.
Hmm.

Which is easier to get hold of? And a surer kill? And less messy for the loved ones to clean up after?

A firearm? Or 50 oxycodone?

If you're on Medicaid you can get the oxycodone almost for free.
fify
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:18 am

This is what I mean when I say no one really gives a shit about the first amendment no matter how much they may claim otherwise, since the argument here seems to be "Keep guns but censor movies"
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by WildCat » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:33 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:This is what I mean when I say no one really gives a shit about the first amendment no matter how much they may claim otherwise, since the argument here seems to be "Keep guns but censor movies"
How many dead children are your precious violent movies worth?

See how that works Nyarl?
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by sparks » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:48 am

Rob Lister wrote:
sparks wrote:No. Facts are facts, WC insists on saying that suicide numbers are not, in fact, less in countries with strict gun control compared with other countries without same.

And in this he is wrong.

Look it up.
I did. There seems to be no correlation.

Here's one chart. Feel free to use your own.
Image
Tick the countries with strict gun laws.

Looks like we are right-smack-dab in the middle. But we have more guns than god.

He is correct.
Very well, I concede the point.

(Motherfuckers!) :)
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:07 am

QED

Free speech for me but not for thee. As always.

I look forward to laughing at certain people next to me they pat themselves on the back claiming to be in favor of free speech (and they will). And/or when they complain about others taking that right away. Hypocrites
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Cloverlief » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:47 am

WildCat wrote: If it wasn't primarily cultural we'd see murders distributed evenly amongst the population. But they aren't.
Correlation, causation. You know when ice cream sales increase so do murders.
WildCat wrote:If guns were the cause we'd see a direct correlation between rates of gun ownership and murders, and we don't. Indeed, in Illinois it's actually a negative correllation. Chicago has a gun ownership rate 1/3 the state average, and a murder rate 7 times higher than the rest of the state.

Those are facts, facts which directly falsify your claims.
Actually in countries that have enacted strict gun regulation, murder rates have dropped dramatically. Facts are facts, and you can cherry pick all you like.

WildCat wrote:Do you know what's different about Chicago? A strong gang culture among the black and Hispanic population. A culture which doesn't exist elsewhere in the state, or in the countries you want to use as an excuse to take my civil rights away.
Good then lets get rid of guns and see how it works. If say after 10 years, we don't see a drop in gun deaths, we can always bring them back.

WildCat wrote:The contention that more guns = more murders is complete, utter bullshit and easily shown to be false. Besides my Illinois example Mexico has one of the lowest rates of gun ownership on the planet - and one of the highest murder rates.
No the contention is that less guns, less murder by guns. And that guns one and only purpose is to kill. Let's eliminate that.
WildCat wrote:If you expect people to give up their civil rights you'd damn well better have ironclad, irrefutable proof that giving up those rights will have the effect you claim it will. So far all you've done is provide bullshit and propaganda by anti-gun groups.
And we are back to Fuck it, legalize murder because people are going to die anyway. Thanks for proving my point.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by WildCat » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:51 am

Cloverlief wrote:Actually in countries that have enacted strict gun regulation, murder rates have dropped dramatically. Facts are facts, and you can cherry pick all you like.
Name one and show the data.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Cloverlief » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:51 am

ed wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:
ed wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:
ed wrote:Explain the UK data

It seems your interest is less in saving lives than in espousing trendy causes.
And you seem more interested in saving your inanimate objects than lives.
I presented statistics that refute your most basic contention. Name calling does not alter your avoidance.
And I pointed out where you were wrong, and also provided relevant statistics.

I didn't call you any names. I reiterated your statement and directed it back at you. If you don't enjoy that then perhaps you should consider how you chose to argue and maybe stick to facts rather than fallacies.
So then I said
I, too, am sorry for your loss but emotion is perhaps the worst basis for legislation.
to which you irrelevantly replied
1) Ed - do not pull that emotional card with me. That is some absolute disrespectful, rude bullshit. Everyone experiences emotions and have an emotional reaction to everything around them. It is how we handle our emotions is what counts not that we have emotions. Your desire to keep your guns over the lives of others is very emotional. So stop with the sexist bullshit.
I leave it to the reader to determine who of us is disrespectful.

Actually inanimate objects are the least of my worry. It is knee jerk responses to bad situations that impact rights and our laws without regard to the unintended consequences. Case in point is the Patriot Act and the FISA court. Crated by well meaning dolts who thoughtthat the legislative pen was the solution. Problems tend to not have black and white solutions.

As far as stats... so? If your point is that guns are implicated in gun detaths I give you a polite golf clap. I, far more robustly, pointd out that if one looks at deaths per se, the gun component is far far more complicated. That level of complication is what you avoided.

As Doc would say, do try to keep up. And while you are at it ruminate on the UK figures.
Frankly, I was surprised by them.
It is clearly you because you started it by demeaning my position by claiming it was emotional instead of using facts and completely ignoring that your emotional attachment to an inanimate object. The first time I called you a name is when I told you to stop being an asshole and in this case you were and are continuing to be an asshole.

The rest of your argument I have already refuted. Perhaps pull your dick out of the barrel of your gun so you can use your brain.
Chani