Examples of self defense with a gun

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by Pyrrho » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:29 am

http://www.wesh.com/article/gunman-kill ... f/21264838
A man who police say shot an officer before barricading himself in an Orlando apartment killed the four children he had been holding hostage before killing himself, police said Monday.
...
Court records show Lindsey, 35, had an extensive criminal history involving arson, battery and theft. He was on probation for several charges including arson.
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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by WildCat » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:24 pm

A year old, but pretty funny. This is some couple!

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:00 pm

Pyrrho wrote:http://www.wesh.com/article/gunman-kill ... f/21264838
A man who police say shot an officer before barricading himself in an Orlando apartment killed the four children he had been holding hostage before killing himself, police said Monday.
...
Court records show Lindsey, 35, had an extensive criminal history involving arson, battery and theft. He was on probation for several charges including arson.
I'm not following your point. Clarification please? Are you presenting that as an example of (legitimate and lawful) self defense with a gun, or an example of something else?

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by sparks » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:16 pm

Methinks it's an example of how wrong it can go.

Pyrrho?
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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by Giz » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:19 pm

sparks wrote:Methinks it's an example of how wrong it can go.

Pyrrho?
I thought it was misposted from the shitpost thread?

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by gnome » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:18 am

You know what I think? I think he's an evil troll. I think this is nothing but an off-topic shenanigan. I think I'm on the report button to Darat right now. And I think HE's the one that's gonna get his butt suspended.

Or my name ain't Nathan Arizona.
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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by Boss Paul » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:39 am

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:13 pm

sparks wrote:Methinks it's an example of how wrong it can go.
If that was the point, then I will readily concede that sometimes it can go bigly wrong. I assume everyone here already knows that.

Since no one was arguing against that point, I am curious why anyone would feel the need to bring it up in this particular thread, especially since it would then merely be the fallacy of "whataboutism" because it does not in any way detract from (or refute) the point of this thread.

Since Pyrrho does not have a history of making such mistakes, and often has useful insights to add to the conversation, I asked for clarification, especially since it was not immediately evident to me which part of his example could be called "self defense" use of a gun.

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by gnome » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:41 pm

Sometimes people successfully defend themselves with a firearm. I assume everyone here already knows that, so I am curious what the point of this thread itself is.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:10 pm

gnome wrote:Sometimes people successfully defend themselves with a firearm. I assume everyone here already knows that, so I am curious what the point of this thread itself is.
May I suggest that you go read the opening post again.

If you still have questions about the point of this thread, I will be happy explain in more detail.

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by gnome » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:09 pm

So all these anecdotes are to make the point that sometimes the firearm is used to threaten instead of kill? Again, not one I would expect to find disputed here, nor the idea that sometimes killing or threatening to is necessary for defense.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:21 pm

gnome wrote:So all these anecdotes are to make the point that sometimes the firearm is used to threaten instead of kill? Again, not one I would expect to find disputed here, nor the idea that sometimes killing or threatening to is necessary for defense.
The answer to your question is in the OP so I am not sure why you are asking this question.

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:41 pm

https://wsvn.com/news/local/suspected-w ... -out-guns/
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (WSVN) — Police say a man who tried to carjack two people was thwarted after the victims both pulled out guns to protect themselves.

According to Fox 30, Jacksonville police officers arrested 36-year-old Christopher Raymond Hill, charging him with strong-arm robbery, carjacking with firearm or deadly weapon, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and trespassing.

Detectives said the incident began when Hill robbed a Walmart liquor store, and attempted to flee in a silver Ford SUV. However, witnesses said the vehicle would not start, so he first tried to carjack Scott Reardean at knifepoint, cutting him on his arms and legs.

“I reached in between my glove box and my console, between my seats, reached down and got my weapon and brandished it for him,” Reardean told WJXT. “He was like, ‘Don’t shoot me.’ I was like, ‘Then get out of here.’”

Hill then jumped into the passenger seat of a woman’s car in a Starbucks drive-thru. Police said the woman got out of her car and grabbed a pistol from her trunk, pointing it at Hill until he ran off.

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:55 pm

Battling anecdotes :)
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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:26 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Battling anecdotes :)
https://news.google.com/search?for=acci ... id=US%3Aen
Judge orders back-flipping FBI agent to stay away from man he's accused of accidentally shooting

Sheriff: Man kills snake, accidentally shoots 9-year-old boy

Teen accidentally shoots best friend at park, police say

Police: Colorado Springs man tries to shoot raccoon, accidentally shoots self

Racine man charged after allegedly showing friend his gun, friend accidentally shoots self

Cops: Teen accidentally shot by best friend in face near Paulding County in coma
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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:36 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Battling anecdotes :)
https://news.google.com/search?for=acci ... id=US%3Aen
Judge orders back-flipping FBI agent to stay away from man he's accused of accidentally shooting

Sheriff: Man kills snake, accidentally shoots 9-year-old boy

Teen accidentally shoots best friend at park, police say

Police: Colorado Springs man tries to shoot raccoon, accidentally shoots self

Racine man charged after allegedly showing friend his gun, friend accidentally shoots self

Cops: Teen accidentally shot by best friend in face near Paulding County in coma
What exactly is the point of posting examples of "accidentally shoots" in a thread about self defense with a gun?

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by Doctor X » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:58 am

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by gnome » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:58 pm

Grammatron wrote:
gnome wrote:So all these anecdotes are to make the point that sometimes the firearm is used to threaten instead of kill? Again, not one I would expect to find disputed here, nor the idea that sometimes killing or threatening to is necessary for defense.
The answer to your question is in the OP so I am not sure why you are asking this question.
The only answer I found was "they don't always kill with the gun, sometimes they threaten instead". I'm asking if that's a distinction anyone here questions, to need to pile up examples?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:22 pm

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Re: Examples of self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 pm

gnome wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
gnome wrote:So all these anecdotes are to make the point that sometimes the firearm is used to threaten instead of kill? Again, not one I would expect to find disputed here, nor the idea that sometimes killing or threatening to is necessary for defense.
The answer to your question is in the OP so I am not sure why you are asking this question.
The only answer I found was "they don't always kill with the gun, sometimes they threaten instead". I'm asking if that's a distinction anyone here questions, to need to pile up examples?
Yes, that "distinction" has been disputed and questioned here on this forum (and elsewhere). I clearly stated that in the opening post.

In general, some people have argued that because a gun's only purpose is to kill, no civilian should have one.

The obvious logical implication is that threatening with a gun in self defense is evil and should not be allowed.

The point of this thread is to demolish that argument.

Also, I would like to add a necessary qualification to your "answer". When done in self defense, threatening with a gun is legitimate and lawful. The very lethality of a gun is what makes it a more credible and effective threat form of self defense. And in the act of self defense, if the bad guy dies, then that too is also legitimate and lawful.