A sad suicide

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
ed
Posts: 31740
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 382 times
Been thanked: 646 times

A sad suicide

Postby ed » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:18 am

A lawyer nationally known for being a champion of gay rights died after setting himself on fire in Prospect Park in Brooklyn early Saturday morning and leaving a note exhorting people to lead less selfish lives as a way to protect the planet, the police said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/14/nyre ... icle-click

Bad way to go. I don't really get it. Don't get the point at all.
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 20192
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1235 times
Been thanked: 1009 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby Anaxagoras » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:07 pm

It is sad. All suicides are sad. Presumably the method was chosen to maximize the amount of coverage it would receive. But it is all in vain. By next week nobody who didn't know him personally will remember. The news cycle will move on to other stories. And nobody will change their lifestyle because of it.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
ed
Posts: 31740
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 382 times
Been thanked: 646 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby ed » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:16 pm

Yeah. I wonder what his partner knew. Suicides strike me as the ultimate self centered act. I've know a few and all the fuckers accomplished was to scar the people that loved/cared for them.
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 20192
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1235 times
Been thanked: 1009 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby Anaxagoras » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:22 pm

That's the thing. He hurt those who loved him the most. Anyone who didn't know him personally will be unaffected. And the world will just continue on exactly the same course.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 12861
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1458 times
Been thanked: 464 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby sparks » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:33 pm

While what you two have just posted might be true in some cases, I think you're both generalizing. The net you're throwing doesn't catch all suicides. There are myriad reasons people might be driven to take their own lives.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 67914
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 2390 times
Been thanked: 967 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:00 pm

My guess is it wasn't primarily to protest, but having definitely decided to commit suicide he chose a method he thought (in his state of deranged despair) would do some good.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19412
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Hiding under ed's bed
Has thanked: 529 times
Been thanked: 536 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby Rob Lister » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:32 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:My guess is it wasn't primarily to protest, but having definitely decided to commit suicide he chose a method he thought (in his state of deranged despair) would do some good.


He was rationalizing it.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 31740
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 382 times
Been thanked: 646 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby ed » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:08 pm

sparks wrote:While what you two have just posted might be true in some cases, I think you're both generalizing. The net you're throwing doesn't catch all suicides. There are myriad reasons people might be driven to take their own lives.


The nature of existing is generalizing. I guess I am not sure what you mean.
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 12861
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1458 times
Been thanked: 464 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby sparks » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:41 pm

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/generalizing

"The nature of existing is generalizing." Perhaps you could expound on that, I'm not sure I get it.

Of course, I know you know what the term means as a definition. Seems to me that in order to exist, we must go from generalizations to specifics and if we're successful at that in an appropriate amount of time, we're rewarded with more existence. And if not, we die. Now, that's how it works in the natural world. In our civilized world, there's lot's of human made shit in the way that interferes with the purely natural process.

Agree with Listy: It looks on the surface as though this guy was protesting.

But there are lots of other reasons one might ... use ... to take ones own life. Indeed, they are legion. Not here to debate the relative merits of any one rationalization for such an act, I merely acknowledging they exist.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 31740
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 382 times
Been thanked: 646 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby ed » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:56 pm

They do.

What I mean is that history, and the story of life, is the art of excerpting and creating useful generalizations. Granularity is the enemy of understanding.

I am not sure that you should pay attention to me, I am in a pissy mood.
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 12861
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1458 times
Been thanked: 464 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby sparks » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:04 pm

Thanks for the warning. :)

I maintain that understanding comes from moving from generalization to specifics. There are literally hundreds of thousands of examples in science.

Cheesy example: "Snakes are deadly, so avoid them all. Except for this one, which is actually a bit like chicken if properly cooked."
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19412
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Hiding under ed's bed
Has thanked: 529 times
Been thanked: 536 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby Rob Lister » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:06 pm

sparks wrote:http://www.dictionary.com/browse/generalizing


Agree with Listy: It looks on the surface as though this guy was protesting.

But there are lots of other reasons one might ... use ... to take ones own life. Indeed, they are legion. Not here to debate the relative merits of any one rationalization for such an act, I merely acknowledging they exist.


Not sure you do. I agree with abdul; I was just boiling it down. Having decided to suicide, he rationalized a justification after the fact. Removing that justification, he'd have rationalized another.

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 12861
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1458 times
Been thanked: 464 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby sparks » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:10 pm

But why did he decide to suicide? Surely it wasn't the protest as you just pointed out.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19412
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Hiding under ed's bed
Has thanked: 529 times
Been thanked: 536 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby Rob Lister » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:18 pm

Grave emotional disrepair.

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 12861
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1458 times
Been thanked: 464 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby sparks » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:04 pm

That'd be one, sure. And perhaps they all provoke that and that's how a suicide comes to that point.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 31740
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamps
Has thanked: 382 times
Been thanked: 646 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby ed » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:41 pm

Maybe he watched The Homesman
- new minimalist ethos -

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 19412
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Hiding under ed's bed
Has thanked: 529 times
Been thanked: 536 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby Rob Lister » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:43 pm

:x :x :x

User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 46877
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm
Has thanked: 728 times
Been thanked: 1249 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby Nyarlathotep » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:36 am

I am also with AA on this. I suspect his protest was secondary to whatever else was going on in his life that made him feel suicide was the answer.
Bango Skank was here!

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 12861
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1458 times
Been thanked: 464 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby sparks » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:58 am

But do you think suicides use all sorts of justifications/rationalizations then for doing something that can't be justified/rationalized? Or could there be instances where such an act is justified and rational?

There's been a time or two when I've looked at my life and how I'd allowed others to fuck it up and thought, why the fuck not? Never did it, obviously. But, there can come times in ones life, as Listy alluded to earlier (grave emotional despair) at which point the person in question is in so much pain, there's no fucking way in hell they can see a way out of it, save the one we're talking about here.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 46877
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm
Has thanked: 728 times
Been thanked: 1249 times

Re: A sad suicide

Postby Nyarlathotep » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:24 am

sparks wrote:But do you think suicides use all sorts of justifications/rationalizations then for doing something that can't be justified/rationalized?


Yes. Often, part of getting to that point is convincing yourself that you are doing the people who love a favor by making yourself gone. I have been there myself, and all to sadly seen it in the behavior of others both successful at it and otherwise.

sparks wrote:Or could there be instances where such an act is justified and rational?


I actually do but only in very, very VERY limited circumstances. I.e. I think someone who is in severe pain and dying from a disease like cancer is justified and rational in wanting to have a painless exit on their own terms. But it seriously has to be something very much along those lines for me to accept it as such.

sparks wrote:There's been a time or two when I've looked at my life and how I'd allowed others to fuck it up and thought, why the fuck not? Never did it, obviously. But, there can come times in ones life, as Listy alluded to earlier (grave emotional despair) at which point the person in question is in so much pain, there's no fucking way in hell they can see a way out of it, save the one we're talking about here.


See my comment above. I think taking your own life for something as vague as "your life is shitty" is indeed selfish as fuck. I have to admit, that in a way, as much as I loved my daughter, I am also very angry at her for all the pain she caused so many people including her mother and myself. I hate myself and feel like scum for being angry at her, but neither can I help it.

And these days when my own mind wanders into that territory (which, sadly, it always has, and probably always will), I keep that in mind
Bango Skank was here!


Return to “Politics & Social Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCBot [Bot] and 0 guests