Did something happen w/ North Korea?

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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Grammatron » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:25 am

Пожалуйста.

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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:47 am

One view of this is that Trump got "hoodwinked". I hope that's not true, but only time will tell.

Kristof | Trump was outfoxed in Singapore
It sure looks as if President Donald Trump was hoodwinked in Singapore.

Trump made a huge concession — the suspension of military exercises with South Korea. That’s on top of the broader concession of the summit meeting itself, security guarantees he gave North Korea and the legitimacy that the summit provides his counterpart, Kim Jong Un.

Within North Korea, the “very special bond” that Trump claimed to have formed with Kim will be portrayed this way: Kim forced the U.S. president, through his nuclear and missile tests, to accept North Korea as a nuclear equal, to provide security guarantees to North Korea, and to cancel war games with South Korea that the North has protested for decades.

In exchange for these concessions, Trump seems to have won astonishingly little. In a joint statement, Kim merely “reaffirmed” the same commitment to denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula that North Korea has repeatedly made since 1992.

“They were willing to de-nuke,” Trump crowed at his news conference after his meetings with Kim. Trump seemed to believe he had achieved some remarkable agreement, but the concessions were all his own.

The most remarkable aspect of the joint statement was what it didn’t contain. There was nothing about North Korea freezing plutonium and uranium programs, nothing about destroying intercontinental ballistic missiles, nothing about allowing inspectors to return to nuclear sites, nothing about North Korea making a full declaration of its nuclear program, nothing about a timetable, nothing about verification, not even any clear pledge to permanently halt testing of nuclear weapons or long-range missiles.
There was also something frankly weird about a U.S. president savaging Canada’s prime minister one day and then embracing the leader of the most totalitarian country in the world.

“He’s a very talented man,” Trump said of Kim. “I also learned that he loves his country very much.”

In an interview with Voice of America, Trump said “I like him” and added: “He’s smart, loves his people, he loves his country.”

Trump praised Kim in the news conference and, astonishingly, even adopted North Korean positions as his own, saying that the U.S. military exercises in the region are “provocative.” That’s a standard North Korean propaganda line. Likewise, Trump acknowledged that human rights in North Korea constituted a “rough situation,” but quickly added that “it’s rough in a lot of places, by the way.” (Note that a 2014 United Nations report stated that North Korean human rights violations do “not have any parallel in the contemporary world.”)

Incredibly, Trump told Voice of America that he had this message for the North Korean people: “I think you have somebody that has a great feeling for them. He wants to do right by them and we got along really well.”

It’s breathtaking to see a U.S. president emerge as a spokesman for the dictator of North Korea.
Of course we all know that North Korea is a country of gulags and probably the least free country in the world, but maybe if we pretend it isn't at least they will stop threatening people outside their borders?
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Grammatron » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:42 am

Anaxagoras wrote:One view of this is that Trump got "hoodwinked". I hope that's not true, but only time will tell.

Kristof | Trump was outfoxed in Singapore
At best you can say it was a big nothing burger. I don't see any outfoxing personally. The suspension of military exercise is viewed as some big concession yet it was and is as official as North Korea's concession to denuclearize.
Of course we all know that North Korea is a country of gulags and probably the least free country in the world, but maybe if we pretend it isn't at least they will stop threatening people outside their borders?
Actions will always speak louder than words especially when it comes to North Korea and their long list of broken promises.

PS: The least free country in the world is Eritrea.

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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Skeeve » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:43 pm

UPDATE: North Korea erasing most anti-US propaganda
Nix the nuclear warheads, cue the doves.

The North Korean government is erasing much of its anti-U.S. propaganda following dictator Kim Jong-un’s forays onto the world stage.

Gone are the posters depicting the U.S. as a “rotten, diseased, pirate nation” and promising “merciless revenge” on American forces for an imagined attack on the totalitarian country.

In their place are cheery messages touting praising the prospects for Korean reunification and the declaration Kim signed in April with South Korean President Moon Jae-in promising “lasting peace,” according to reports.

Still the most isolated country in the world, very few North Koreans have access to news and information from the outside world. So state propaganda plays a huge role in shaping their views.

Murals, banners and posters displayed throughout the capital, Pyongyang, have for decades depicted the U.S. as a brutal, imperialist aggressor hell-bent on destroying the North Korean regime. South Korea and Japan were also frequently targeted as willing allies of the U.S.

But things started to take an Orwellian turn in the run-up to Kim’s June 12 summit with President Donald Trump, with the old posters vanishing since then.

“All the anti-American posters I usually see around Kim Il-sung Square and at shops, they’ve all just gone,” Rowan Beard, a tour manager at Young Pioneer Tours, told Reuters. “In five years working in North Korea, I’ve never seen them completely disappear before.”
Despite the snarky opening sentence, perhaps this is a bit of good news?
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by gnome » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:10 pm

I hope this is a change and would celebrate.

My prediction--before this administration leaves office they will be back on persistently hostile rhetoric.
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Skeeve » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:24 pm

gnome wrote:I hope this is a change and would celebrate.

My prediction--before this administration leaves office they will be back on persistently hostile rhetoric.
Fair enough gnome, I noted one line in particular as somewhat "Orwellian" (presupposing this guy is telling the truth).

“All the anti-American posters I usually see around Kim Il-sung Square and at shops, they’ve all just gone,” Rowan Beard, a tour manager at Young Pioneer Tours, told Reuters. “In five years working in North Korea, I’ve never seen them completely disappear before.”
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by sparks » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:30 pm

Turned into Soylent Nork to feed all he peasants.
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:42 pm

Not immediately topical, but interesting.

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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Witness » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:26 pm

Skeeve wrote:Fair enough gnome, I noted one line in particular as somewhat "Orwellian" (presupposing this guy is telling the truth).

“All the anti-American posters I usually see around Kim Il-sung Square and at shops, they’ve all just gone,”[…]
You seem somehow astonished, but in these regimes only official or appproved media exist, and only the present (i. e. the party line) + a glorified (i. e. rewritten according to said party line) past. Non-conformant stuff comes with a ticket to Siberia, psychiatric hospital, or some other unpleasant vacation attached.
So not "somewhat" Orwellian, but just business as usual in Bloato's Paradise.

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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:19 am

This would be a big deal if true (maybe):

North Korea to move artillery out of range of Seoul as part of peace talks, South Korea suggests

The artillery has always been the North's trump card. Their own mini deterrent.

Well, if the artillery can be moved away, I suppose it can just as easily be moved back if they decide to go hostile again. And I don't know if it's something we can independently verify, although probably our spy satellites could confirm it. Then again, supposedly these guns are well hidden, so maybe not. Either way, the information is probably highly classified.
The rival Koreas are discussing the possible relocation of North Korea's long-range artillery systems away from the tense Korean border, the South's prime minister said, as the countries forge ahead with steps to lower tensions and extend a recent detente.

North Korea has deployed an estimated 1,000 artillery pieces along the border, posing a significant threat to Seoul and the metropolitan area.

In a speech marking the 68th anniversary of the outbreak of the 1950-53 Korean War, Prime Minister Lee Nak-yon said that "moving (North Korea's) long-range artillery to the rear is under discussion," as he explained what types of good-will steps between the sides have been taken in recent months.
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:27 am

I think Kim really does want peace.

That's really the only factor.
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Witness » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:39 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:I think Kim really does want peace.

That's really the only factor.
I doubt both points very much. "Really".

Yet:
North Korea cancels annual ‘anti-US’ rally as relations improve following Trump-Kim meeting

[…]

Fist-pumping, flag-waving and slogan-shouting masses of Pyongyang residents normally assemble each year for the rally to kick off a month of anti-US Korean War-focused events designed to strengthen nationalism and unity. It all culminates on 27 July, which North Korea celebrates as a national holiday called the day of "Victory in the Fatherland Liberation War".

Last year's event was held on Kim Il Sung Square with a reported 100,000 people attending. North Korea even issued special anti-US postage stamps.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 15461.html

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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:18 am

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Doctor X » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:32 am

It is not like he groped him.

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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:17 am

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-kore ... -u-n887926
U.S. intelligence agencies believe that North Korea has increased its production of fuel for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months — and that Kim Jong Un may try to hide those facilities as he seeks more concessions in nuclear talks with the Trump administration, U.S. officials told NBC News.

The intelligence assessment, which has not previously been reported, seems to counter the sentiments expressed by President Donald Trump, who tweeted after his historic June 12 summit with Kim that "there was no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea."

Analysts at the CIA and other intelligence agencies don't see it that way, according to more than a dozen American officials who are familiar with their assessments and spoke on the condition of anonymity. They see a regime positioning itself to extract every concession it can from the Trump administration — while clinging to nuclear weapons it believes are essential to survival.
Aw that's just Deep State Fake News. Kim Jong Un would never do such a thing.
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:30 am

Pyrrho wrote:https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-kore ... -u-n887926
U.S. intelligence agencies believe that North Korea has increased its production of fuel for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months — and that Kim Jong Un may try to hide those facilities as he seeks more concessions in nuclear talks with the Trump administration, U.S. officials told NBC News.

The intelligence assessment, which has not previously been reported, seems to counter the sentiments expressed by President Donald Trump, who tweeted after his historic June 12 summit with Kim that "there was no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea."

Analysts at the CIA and other intelligence agencies don't see it that way, according to more than a dozen American officials who are familiar with their assessments and spoke on the condition of anonymity. They see a regime positioning itself to extract every concession it can from the Trump administration — while clinging to nuclear weapons it believes are essential to survival.
Aw that's just Deep State Fake News. Kim Jong Un would never do such a thing.
Hard to assess. North Korea has always proved untrustworthy in the past, so it wouldn't surprise me if this is the case.

On the other hand, who are these "U.S. officials" and what is their agenda? Why are they leaking classified info? Also, how do they know? We don't know anything about where this information came from and how reliable it is. They were sure that Iraq had WMDs too. Those WMDs were never found.
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Witness » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:06 am

That article has a charming last paragraph:
“The ideological poisoning that is personal idolization is corrupting the chief personnel in the People’s Army. We must nip the bud of ideological poisoning,” the source quoted Kim as saying.
:lmao:

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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Witness » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:37 am

From the Telegraph:
US intelligence believes North Korea is making more nuclear bomb fuel despite talks

US intelligence agencies believe North Korea has increased production of fuel for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months and may try to hide these while seeking concessions in nuclear talks with the United States, NBC news quoted US officials as saying.

In a report on Friday, the network said what it described as the latest US intelligence assessment appeared to go counter to sentiments expressed by President Donald Trump, who tweeted after an unprecedented June 12 summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un that "there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea."

NBC quoted five unidentified US officials as saying that in recent months North Korea had stepped up production of enriched uranium for nuclear weapons, even as it engaged in diplomacy with the United States.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... bomb-fuel/
North Korea expands weapons facilities despite US pressure to disarm

North Korea is completing a major expansion of a key missile-manufacturing plant, according to new satellite pictures that have cast fresh doubt on Pyongyang’s commitment to disarm despite US pressure.

The facility makes solid-fuel, ballistic missiles - capable of a swift nuclear strike on targets in Asia – and re-entry vehicles for warheads, believed to be one of the last major technological hurdles in developing longer-range missiles capable of hitting the continental US.

According to the Wall Street Journal, new images analysed by the Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey, California, show that North Korea was finishing construction on the exterior of the Chemical Material Institute in Hamhung last month, when Kim Jong-un was meeting with US President Donald Trump in Singapore.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... re-disarm/

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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:38 pm

Inside Pompeo's Fraught North Korea Trip

Basically no real progress was made. They seemed to be more interested in photo ops and lavishing their guests with hospitality than actually negotiating any concrete details.
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Re: Did something happen w/ North Korea?

Post by Doctor X » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:40 am

Time to make the actual sausages.

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