This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

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This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:12 am

More about Kanye. It's a puff piece over by Breitbart, but ...

Report: Kanye West to Launch Star-Studded Initiative to Restore Poor Chicago Communities
Breitbart

Analysis: I think he has serious political ambitions.
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by sparks » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:28 am

It won't.
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:18 am

That's what "they" said about Trump.

Including me. :o
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by ed » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:25 am

I think that there is an enormous vacuum in black leadership in the US. He may well see an opportunity.
Maybe he could be the sheriff in Chi. Anything is better than what they have.
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:32 pm

Sherriff? How about Mayor?

Force Rahm to say bad things about a black guy. :lmao:
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu May 03, 2018 3:14 pm

Update:
No much heard from Kanye in the last few days, but this Freeper thread is instructive:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3652250/posts
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by Nyarlathotep » Thu May 03, 2018 3:25 pm

Shouldn’t surprise anyone that Kanye loves Trump. Kanye is very rich, Trump is very rich. Trumps policies benefit Trump ergo they benefit rich people ergo they benefit Kanye.

I suspect the only reason more rich celebrities don’t support Trump is because, unlike Kanye, their careers aren’t generally built on shocking people so they stand to lose as much by alienating people as they do to gain by cozying up to Trump.
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu May 03, 2018 3:32 pm

Furthermore, back when Trump was a non-political publicity hound celebrity, the "hip hop community" especially liked him. Not just rich, but a white guy who appreciates bling etc.

But what's instructive about the Freeper thread is the fixed belief that Kanye will somehow lead a black exodus from the Democratic Party.
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by gnome » Thu May 03, 2018 4:25 pm

Is there a place in "Black Leadership" for someone that claims slavery was a "choice"?
Context? From what I can tell, 400 years means they didn't revolt enough to satisfy him. Willing to stand corrected.
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by Rob Lister » Thu May 03, 2018 4:53 pm

gnome, I gotta know, why are you taking his comment seriously enough to ask this question?

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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu May 03, 2018 4:57 pm

gnome wrote:Is there a place in "Black Leadership" ...
Overthinking it. My primary point is the delusion on the right.

No one black thought of him as a leader before. Why now?
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by gnome » Thu May 03, 2018 5:27 pm

Rob Lister wrote:gnome, I gotta know, why are you taking his comment seriously enough to ask this question?
I would love to dismiss him as an inconsequential loon. As soon as he starts being a political figure that doesn't work.

cf. President Trump.

Before 2015, who thought anything he said mattered much?
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by WildCat » Thu May 03, 2018 5:32 pm

gnome wrote:Is there a place in "Black Leadership" for someone that claims slavery was a "choice"?
Context? From what I can tell, 400 years means they didn't revolt enough to satisfy him. Willing to stand corrected.
That's not the the big obstacle. The problem is current black leadership and Democratic Party politicians need black neighborhoods to be forever poor and dependent on government. If a neighborhood begins to improve they rally the forces to stop the gentrification.
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by Grammatron » Thu May 03, 2018 5:35 pm

ed wrote:I think that there is an enormous vacuum in black leadership in the US. He may well see an opportunity.
Maybe he could be the sheriff in Chi. Anything is better than what they have.
IMO that's one of the problems, that people are looking "black leadership" or that it's a concept that should be seriously considered.

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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by gnome » Thu May 03, 2018 6:15 pm

WildCat wrote:
gnome wrote:Is there a place in "Black Leadership" for someone that claims slavery was a "choice"?
Context? From what I can tell, 400 years means they didn't revolt enough to satisfy him. Willing to stand corrected.
That's not the the big obstacle. The problem is current black leadership and Democratic Party politicians need black neighborhoods to be forever poor and dependent on government. If a neighborhood begins to improve they rally the forces to stop the gentrification.
I think that's an oversimplification and really off the mark. I hear that from knee-jerk conservatives that assume that nobody could possibly disagree with them--instead everyone secretly knows the conservative is right, but pretends to disagree out of an ulterior motive.

I expect a more sophisticated viewpoint from someone more intelligent, such as yourself.

Prosperity gets more votes. That's why I don't believe that any but the most cynical concentrations of power, much smaller than an entire political party, wants more people on welfare to further their political ends. I think in a broad sense politicians would rather get votes because there's lots of jobs and crime is low and they can take credit for it.

You mention gentrification--is it at all possible resistance to the phenomenon may have something to do with affordable housing near where the jobs are? Even if not, I think there are a lot of motives at play there besides an intention to keep people poor. It isn't nonexistent, but it's not the whole story, and it doesn't fall neatly into left and right.
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by Grammatron » Thu May 03, 2018 6:36 pm

gnome wrote: Prosperity gets more votes. That's why I don't believe that any but the most cynical concentrations of power, much smaller than an entire political party, wants more people on welfare to further their political ends. I think in a broad sense politicians would rather get votes because there's lots of jobs and crime is low and they can take credit for it.
Some people may not share your benchmarks nor definitions for prosperity.
You mention gentrification--is it at all possible resistance to the phenomenon may have something to do with affordable housing near where the jobs are? Even if not, I think there are a lot of motives at play there besides an intention to keep people poor. It isn't nonexistent, but it's not the whole story, and it doesn't fall neatly into left and right.
Here's how it works in LA.

Zoning laws essentially prohibit construction of new apartments and housing. Young professionals are left with several choices: live with other people, commute for several hours, move to closer neighborhoods that are "poor" and "high crime". When enough young professionals do that they create local demand for their money. This in turn leads to higher rent prices and business that cater to higher price point. That those neighborhoods turn from dirty crime ridden cesspools into functioning civic zones or "gentrification"

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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by WildCat » Thu May 03, 2018 9:48 pm

gnome wrote:I think that's an oversimplification and really off the mark.
I know it to be true. The anti-gentrification forces are strong in the Democratic Party. Anti-gentrification aldermen in Chicago are at this moment trying to pass an ordinance requiring enormous fees - 6 figures - to build new housing in gentrifying neighborhoods, in an effort to stop the gentrification. Activists go around vandalizing new businesses they think contribute to gentrification. It's absolutely nuts.

They don't want neighborhoods to improve.
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Post by WildCat » Thu May 03, 2018 9:51 pm

And here's an example. Anti-Gentrification Plan Makes Developers Pay Big For Building Near 606
LOGAN SQUARE — If a new law designed to curb gentrification along The 606 passes, developers and new land owners alike would be charged hefty fees — anywhere from $300,000 to $650,000 — to demolish residential buildings along the western portion of the trail and replace them with projects that don't include a substantial amount of affordable housing.

Under the legislation, obtained by DNAinfo Chicago Tuesday, the money would be deposited into an affordable housing trust managed by a board of trustees made up of local aldermen, leaders from local groups including Logan Square Neighborhood Association and Latin United Community Housing Association (LUCHA) and commissioners of the city's Departments of Buildings and Planning and Development

The board would use the trust to push more affordable housing in the area, as well as preserve existing housing, such as using the money to help longtime residents who need assistance with paying property taxes or giving them grants to improve their homes so they can stay in the area, Ald. Roberto Maldonado (26th) told about 50 cheering supporters at a rally on Tuesday night at 1800 N. Humboldt Park Ave. underneath the Bloomingdale Trail.

"This is an ordinance to help our longstanding community residents, rather than to help the new developers that want to come here and displace us and kick us out of here," said Maldonado, a co-author of the proposal.
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by gnome » Fri May 04, 2018 12:05 pm

WildCat wrote:
gnome wrote:I think that's an oversimplification and really off the mark.
I know it to be true. The anti-gentrification forces are strong in the Democratic Party. Anti-gentrification aldermen in Chicago are at this moment trying to pass an ordinance requiring enormous fees - 6 figures - to build new housing in gentrifying neighborhoods, in an effort to stop the gentrification. Activists go around vandalizing new businesses they think contribute to gentrification. It's absolutely nuts.

They don't want neighborhoods to improve.
I don't dispute the level of resistance. What I'm looking for is a demonstration of motive.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: This is the "serious" Kanye thread. We'll see if it lasts.

Post by ed » Fri May 04, 2018 1:33 pm

gnome wrote:
WildCat wrote:
gnome wrote:Is there a place in "Black Leadership" for someone that claims slavery was a "choice"?
Context? From what I can tell, 400 years means they didn't revolt enough to satisfy him. Willing to stand corrected.
That's not the the big obstacle. The problem is current black leadership and Democratic Party politicians need black neighborhoods to be forever poor and dependent on government. If a neighborhood begins to improve they rally the forces to stop the gentrification.
I think that's an oversimplification and really off the mark. I hear that from knee-jerk conservatives that assume that nobody could possibly disagree with them--instead everyone secretly knows the conservative is right, but pretends to disagree out of an ulterior motive.
It's a simplification but not too wide of the mark, I think. Maintaining the status quo, particularly if it works in your favor is the simplest course of action and humans, as with all critters, tend to optimize energy expenditure with respect to a desired outcome.
I expect a more sophisticated viewpoint from someone more intelligent, such as yourself.
That is precisely why I am posting.
Prosperity gets more votes.

In the abstract, yes. But to some poor fucker in Cabrini Green (or whatever the latest shithole is called) $5 more in food stamps and their man getting out of the slammer early IS prosperity. You are defining it, I think, from your privileged white elitist pov. Prosperity to you might be getting some high grade coke or a getaway weekend in Anguilla. Ain't the case in Chi. As you know, I am a person of color who grew up in abject poverty so I know these things. Disagreeing with me would make you a racist so watch it. :x
That's why I don't believe that any but the most cynical concentrations of power, much smaller than an entire political party, wants more people on welfare to further their political ends.

"Want" implies some sort of thought process that directly relates to the state of the "people". I think what happens to the "people" as a result of the political calculations directed to reelection is purely coincidental.
I think in a broad sense politicians would rather get votes because there's lots of jobs and crime is low and they can take credit for it.
And they'd like ponies too. It is simpler to manipulate the current state of affairs than to actually do something. What politician actually created jobs? Excepting bullshit government programs that sort of buy jobs.
You mention gentrification--is it at all possible resistance to the phenomenon may have something to do with affordable housing near where the jobs are? Even if not, I think there are a lot of motives at play there besides an intention to keep people poor. It isn't nonexistent, but it's not the whole story, and it doesn't fall neatly into left and right.
Who knows.

Again, I think that you give far far far too much credit to politicians with regard to what they care about. The intention to keep people poor is simply not in the evoked set of the political class. Getting power and keeping it is all that matters. Think of those needs the way you think of basic human needs: sex, warmth, shelter etc. To get those things, in extremis, one does not particularly worry about who might suffer.

You give too much credit to the good will of our rulers: the notion of "good will" is completely alien, undefined and not even wrong in such a discussion.
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