China: The Celestial Thread

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Witness
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Witness » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:45 am

↑ Lol.

Beijing says it's 'very rude' for 14 countries and the EU to ask them about detaining 1 million Muslims
  • A group of Western ambassadors in Beijing reportedly wrote a letter demanding that China explain its persecution of the Uighur ethnic minority.
  • China subjects the Uighurs, a majority-Muslim ethnic group, under an unprecedented amount of surveillance, and is accused of imprisoning up to 1 million of them in detention camps and re-education centres.
  • The Chinese foreign ministry on Friday lashed out at the reported letter, calling the ambassadors “very rude.”
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/chin ... -11?nojs=1

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:54 am

Western countries generally (even the USA under Trump) don't quite get the concept of "internal matter" as understood by China.
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Witness » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:13 am

↑ Perhaps also some "losing face" problem. :mrgreen:

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:45 am

Witness wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:13 am
↑ Perhaps also some "losing face" problem. :mrgreen:
I don't think that "losing face" is a uniquely oriental concept.

When I first heard the term it was explained to me as like a Chinese thing, mysterious to Westerners, but it's not really different from Western concepts like honor, reputation or prestige. They just have a different idiom to express it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(soc ... l_concept)
"The concept of face is, of course, Chinese in origin",[6] yet many languages have "face" terms that metaphorically mean "prestige; honor; reputation". The French sociologist Marcel Mauss, who sociologically studied the Kwakwaka'wakw (formerly known as Kwakiutl) and Haida nations in British Columbia, Canada interpreted the Kwak'wala word q'elsem ("rotten face") meaning "stingy potlatch-giver; one who gives no feast".

Kwakiutl and Haida noblemen have the same notion of "face" as the Chinese mandarin or officer. It is said of one of the great mythical chiefs who gave no feast that he had a "rotten face". The expression is more apt than it is even in China; for to lose one's face is to lose one's spirit, which is truly the "face", the dancing mask, the right to incarnate a spirit and wear an emblem or totem. It is the veritable persona which is at stake, and it can be lost in the potlatch just as it can be lost in the game of gift-giving, in war, or through some error in ritual. (1954:38)

Michael Carr (1992, 1993) lexicographically investigated "face; prestige" dictionary forms in Chinese, Japanese, and English. Within this sample, Chinese dictionaries include 98 forms, e.g., sipo lian 撕破臉 ("rip up face") "have no consideration for someone's feelings"; Japanese dictionaries list 89, e.g., kao o uru 顔を売る ("sell face") "become popular; gain influence"; and English dictionaries include 5 forms, e.g., lose face (borrowed from Chinese diulian 丟臉 "lose face"). Carr found that the Chinese and Japanese lexicons have roughly equal numbers of words for "losing face" and "saving face", while English has more for "saving face".

Chinese 臉面 and 面子[edit]
Two influential Chinese authors explained "face". The Chinese writer Lu Xun referred to the American missionary Arthur Henderson Smith's (1894:16–18) interpretation.

The term "face" keeps cropping up in our conversation, and it seems such a simple expression that I doubt whether many people give it much thought. Recently, however, we have heard this word on the lips of foreigners too, who seem to be studying it. They find it extremely hard to understand, but believe that "face" is the key to the Chinese spirit and that grasping it will be like grabbing a queue twenty-four years ago [when wearing a queue was compulsory] – everything else will follow. (1934, 1959:129)

Lin Yutang considered the psychology of "face".

Interesting as the Chinese physiological face is, the psychological face makes a still more fascinating study. It is not a face that can be washed or shaved, but a face that can be "granted" and "lost" and "fought for" and "presented as a gift". Here we arrive at the most curious point of Chinese social psychology. Abstract and intangible, it is yet the most delicate standard by which Chinese social intercourse is regulated.[1]

Lin refers to liú miànzi 留面子 "grant face; give (someone) a chance to regain lost honor", shī miànzi 失面子 "lose face", zhēng miànzi 爭面子 "fight for face; keeping up with the Joneses", and gěi miànzi 給面子 "give face; show respect (for someone's feelings)".
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Witness » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:33 am

↑ "Potlatch" should please sparks as it's giving away, or even destroying, Nice Things™. :mrgreen:


Maersk CEO Reveals ‘Ironic’ Twist in U.S. Trade War With China

The man running the world’s largest container-shipping company says he has access to data that shows Donald Trump has so far failed to wean the U.S. off Chinese imports.

Soren Skou, the chief executive of A.P. Moller-Maersk A/S, says Chinese exports to the U.S. actually grew 5-10 percent last quarter. Meanwhile, U.S. exports to China fell by 25-30 percent.

“It’s an ironic development,” Skou told reporters in Copenhagen on Wednesday. “But after Trump has turned up the volume, the U.S. has only increased their imports from China even more.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium=social

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Witness » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:51 pm

China ‘has taken the gloves off’ in its thefts of U.S. technology secrets

It was the great microchip heist — a stunning Chinese-backed effort that pilfered as much as $8.75 billion in patented American technology.

U.S. officials say the theft took a year to pull off and involved commercial spies, a Chinese-backed company, a Taiwanese chipmaker and employees affiliated with Micron Technology, a U.S.-based microchip behemoth.

Yet what Micron called “one of the boldest schemes of commercial espionage in recent times” is most notable because it’s not unusual.

Beijing over the last two years has significantly ramped up its swiping of commercial technology and intellectual property, from jet engines to genetically modified rice, as U.S. relations with China have grown more acrimonious under President Trump, according to U.S. officials and security experts.

“They want technology by hook or by crook. They want it now. The spy game has always been a gentleman’s game, but China has taken the gloves off,” said John Bennett, the special agent in charge of the FBI’s San Francisco office, which battles economic spies targeting Silicon Valley. “They don’t care if they get caught or if people go to jail. As long as it justifies their ends, they are not going to stop.”

The Trump administration has toughened its rhetoric against China and announced several dramatic arrests as the threats — and the costs — have soared. In a harshly worded speech last month, Vice President Mike Pence accused Chinese security agencies of masterminding the “wholesale theft of American technology.”
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na- ... story.html

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Witness » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:58 am

China blacklists millions of people from booking flights as 'social credit' system introduced

Officials say aim is to make it ‘difficult to move’ for those deemed ‘untrustworthy’

Millions of Chinese nationals have been blocked from booking flights or trains as Beijing seeks to implement its controversial “social credit” system, which allows the government to closely monitor and judge each of its 1.3 billion citizens based on their behaviour and activity.

The system, to be rolled out by 2020, aims to make it “difficult to move” for those deemed “untrustworthy”, according to a detailed plan published by the government this week.

It will be used to reward or punish people and organisations for “trustworthiness” across a range of measures.

A key part of the plan not only involves blacklisting people with low social credibility scores, but also “publicly disclosing the records of enterprises and individuals’ untrustworthiness on a regular basis”.

The plan stated: “We will improve the credit blacklist system, publicly disclose the records of enterprises and individuals’ untrustworthiness on a regular basis, and form a pattern of distrust and punishment.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... reddit.com

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Giz » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:33 am

Next thing you know, they'll go so far as to have angry mobs confront deplorable individuals as they go about their business.

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:30 am

Witness wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:58 am
China blacklists millions of people from booking flights as 'social credit' system introduced

Officials say aim is to make it ‘difficult to move’ for those deemed ‘untrustworthy’

Millions of Chinese nationals have been blocked from booking flights or trains as Beijing seeks to implement its controversial “social credit” system, which allows the government to closely monitor and judge each of its 1.3 billion citizens based on their behaviour and activity.

The system, to be rolled out by 2020, aims to make it “difficult to move” for those deemed “untrustworthy”, according to a detailed plan published by the government this week.

It will be used to reward or punish people and organisations for “trustworthiness” across a range of measures.

A key part of the plan not only involves blacklisting people with low social credibility scores, but also “publicly disclosing the records of enterprises and individuals’ untrustworthiness on a regular basis”.

The plan stated: “We will improve the credit blacklist system, publicly disclose the records of enterprises and individuals’ untrustworthiness on a regular basis, and form a pattern of distrust and punishment.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... reddit.com
Truly Orwellian stuff.



Some people are in fact already on the blacklist. You can get on it, for example, if you find yourself unable to pay debts.

They'll even do things like put your face up on a billboard or play a warning when somebody calls you.
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Witness » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:59 am

Chinese armed forces use ‘lie detectors’ to ensure loyalty of civilian staff hired to replace axed military personnel

Southern Theatre Command takes ‘very rare’ step to ensure professionalism and loyalty of candidates as civilians slot into roles once held by non-combat military

A wing of the People’s Liberation Army has introduced “lie detector” tests for civilian job candidates, a move designed to make sure recruiters hire properly qualified and politically motivated staff, state media reported.

A video clip from official China Central Television in late November showed how Southern Theatre Command had used equipment to monitor the heartbeat and blood pressure of 18 candidates during tests.

The WeChat social media account of the Southern Theatre Command said this was the first time the military had used such technology as part of civilian personnel recruitment.

It said the 18 candidates took comprehensive political examinations, including psychological tests, face-to-face interviews and questionnaires, to evaluate their loyalty.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/militar ... ment-after

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Witness » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:39 pm

Angry China summons US ambassador over arrest of tech exec Meng Wanzhou

The Chinese foreign ministry on Sunday summoned U.S. Ambassador to China Terry Branstad to protest the detention of a senior tech executive by the Canadian authorities "at the unreasonable behest of the United States."

Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng demanded the release of Meng Wanzhou, chief financial officer of Huawei Technologies, who is accused by U.S. officials of attempting to circumvent U.S. sanctions on Iran.

Meng, 46, was bound for Mexico when she was detained while changing planes in Vancouver, Canada, more than a week ago. Huawei is China's largest manufacturer of telecommunications equipment. Meng is also the daughter of the company's founder.

A Canadian bail hearing for Meng that began last week will continue Monday. Prosecutor John Gibb-Carsley wants her held without bail, saying she faces fraud charges in the U.S. that could result in a prison sentence of 30 years.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... 257457002/

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Witness » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:21 am

Senior Chinese military officer calls for attacks on US ships in the South China Sea
  • A senior Chinese military officer who spoke at a conference in Beijing on Saturday urged the Chinese navy to use force to counter US activities in the South China Sea.
  • The People's Liberation Army Air Force colonel commandant argued that the Chinese navy should ram US Navy warships that try to conduct freedom-of-navigation operations in "Chinese waters" in the South China Sea, Taiwan News reported.
  • Such an aggressive action would certainly constitute an escalation after an incident in September in which a Chinese navy destroyer nearly collided with a US warship in the South China Sea.
https://www.businessinsider.de/south-ch ... ?r=US&IR=T

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Giz » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:25 am

Damn commies! The USN would never ram anyone!

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:03 am

I question why the US had Canada arrest a high-ranking Huawei executive, given that China could retaliate in kind. Now it may be happening:

China has detained a former Canadian diplomat
Michael Kovrig, a former Canadian diplomat, has reportedly been detained in China.

The reasons for his arrest were not immediately clear, Reuters reported, citing sources. Kovrig’s employer, the International Crisis Group, said it’s “doing everything possible to secure additional information on Michael’s whereabouts as well as his prompt and safe release.”

Kovrig’s detention comes after last week’s arrest of Huawei’s chief financial officer Meng Wanzhou in Canada, at the bequest of the US. Meng, daughter of Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei, is suspected of violating trade sanctions on Iran. The move raised fears that China could retaliate against foreign executives working there.
You may recall that some American basketball players were arrested for shoplifting in China last year, and basically Trump had to ask China nicely to release them, which they did. They may not be so receptive to such entreaties in the future if we are having their people arrested for what appears to be political reasons. That doesn't have to mean letting Huawei off scott-free necessarily. You could impose fines or some other kind of financial penalty, but arresting executives is a bit of an escalation. And they can play that game too.
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Giz » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:06 am

We arrest Chinese and the Chinese arrest Canadians? Sheeeet, we can do this all week!

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Giz » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:07 am

I mean, they know we are different countries, right?

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:25 am

She was arrested in Canada by the Canadians. At our request. And they will probably have opportunities to arrest an American at some point.
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Witness » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:09 am

China Involved in 90 Percent of Espionage and Industrial Secrets Theft, Department of Justice Reveals

China was involved in 90 percent of all economic espionage cases handled by the Department of Justice over the last seven years, according to a report submitted Wednesday to the Senate Intelligence Committee.

“From 2011-2018, more than 90 percent of the Department’s cases alleging economic espionage by or to benefit a state involve China, and more than two-thirds of the Department’s theft of trade secrets cases have had a nexus to China,” the report stated.

The report noted that the Department of Justice has not always been able to link the theft of trade secrets directly to the Chinese government, but that the theft almost always benefits China’s official economic policy. Furthermore, China’s lack of intellectual property laws, unwillingness to cooperate in investigations and the outsized role of state-owned enterprises in the country’s economy largely contribute to the Chinese government’s complicity in these crimes.

“One example was the conviction of a Chinese company—the Sinovel Wind Group Company—for stealing wind turbine technology from a U.S. company resulting in the victim losing more than $1 billion in shareholder equity and almost 700 jobs, over half its global workforce,” the report reads.

“Another recent example was the conviction of a Chinese scientist for theft of genetically modified rice seeds with biopharmaceutical applications, providing a direct economic benefit to the Chinese crop institute that was the intended recipient of the seeds,” the report continues.
https://www.newsweek.com/china-involved ... ft-1255908

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Grammatron » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:36 am

Fucking Russians