The Gipper vs. The Donald

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:05 am

https://www.marketplace.org/2018/06/08/ ... r-30-years

Good story. Best in audio format because you can hear Reagan speak in his own voice.
“Our peaceful trading partners are not our enemies. They are our allies,” President Ronald Reagan said in 1988.
Image
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by WildCat » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:27 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:https://www.marketplace.org/2018/06/08/ ... r-30-years

Good story. Best in audio format because you can hear Reagan speak in his own voice.
“Our peaceful trading partners are not our enemies. They are our allies,” President Ronald Reagan said in 1988.
Image
The reality:
The administration has thus far:

Forced Japan to accept restraints on auto exports;
Tightened considerably the quotas on imported sugar;
Negotiated to increase the restrictiveness of the Multi­fiber Arrangement governing trade in textiles and apparel;
Required 18 countries, including Brazil, Spain, South
Korea, Japan, Mexico, South Africa, Finland, Australia, and the European Community, to accept "voluntary re­straint agreements" that reduce their steel imports to the United States;
Imposed a 45% duty on Japanese motorcycles for the ben­efit of Harley Davidson, which admitted that superior Japanese management was the cause of its problems;
Raised tariffs on Canadian lumber and cedar shingles;
Forced the Japanese into an agreement to control the price of computer memory chips;
Removed third-world countries on several occasions from the duty-free import program for developing nations;
Pressed Japan to force its automakers to buy more Ameri­can-made parts;
Demanded that Taiwan, West Germany, Japan, and Switzerland restrain their exports of machine tools;
Accused the Japanese of dumping roller bearings on grounds so that the price did not rise to cover a fall in the value of the yen;
Accused the Japanese of dumping forklift trucks and color picture tubes;
Extended quotas on imported clothes pins;
Failed to ask Congress to end the ban on the export of Alaskan oil and timber cut from federal lands;
Redefined dumping so domestic firms can more easily charge foreign competitors with unfair trade practices;
Beefed-up the Export-Import Bank, an institution dedicated to distorting the American economy at the ex­pense of the American people in order to artificially pro­mote exports of eight large corporations.
https://mises.org/library/ronald-reagan-protectionist

Article is from 1988.
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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:19 pm

There are two famous Ronald Reagans, the one who once served as president of the United States and the mythological being.
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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by corplinx » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:35 pm

1981, Reagan the Free Trading Laissez Faire Guy basically was full Obama trying to micromanage the auto-sector:

https://www.csmonitor.com/1981/0320/032039.html

This is why I wasn't a fan of the bailouts. Half a century of car protectionism left auto makers weak after taking the piss out of us forever.

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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:17 pm

OK, so he wasn't Free Trading Laissez Faire enough for the anarcho-capitalists at the Mises Institute.

Both 1981 and 2009 were moments of crisis for the US auto industry. Which probably had something to do with why they felt the need to interfere with the auto industry. Right now is hardly comparable.
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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by corplinx » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:20 pm

Reagan spoke in platitudes but didn't govern in them.

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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:25 pm

At the time there may have been the usual politician gap between public image and reality, but as time passes the gap between Reagan as he was and the mythological being keeps getting wider.

There is a similar phenomenon among admirers of JFK.
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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:26 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:There are two famous Ronald Reagans, the one who once served as president of the United States and the mythological being.

C.f. JFK.
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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by corplinx » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:38 pm

Man. I really hope Trump shits the bed in some way that makes him another Nixon.

I don't think I can handle 30 years from now someone running on the coattails of "our Orange and Savior god-Emporer Trump"

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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:40 pm

The one who gave the CIA all it wanted, got us stuck in Vietnam, and was assassinated by a Communist.

-- versus --

The one who was assassinated by the CIA because he was going to end the war in Vietnam.


The gap isn't that big with Reagan, but it hasn't been as long a time.
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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:42 pm

corplinx wrote:Man. I really hope Trump shits the bed in some way that makes him another Nixon.

I don't think I can handle 30 years from now someone running on the coattails of "our Orange and Savior god-Emporer Trump"
In the former USA, it'll be like Russians who are nostalgic for Stalin (but way too young to have been around back then). :coolspecs:
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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:45 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:The one who gave the CIA all it wanted, got us stuck in Vietnam, and was assassinated by a Communist.

-- versus --

The one who was assassinated by the CIA because he was going to end the war in Vietnam.


The gap isn't that big with Reagan, but it hasn't been as long a time.
I think part of it with JFK actually IS the assasination.

Makes him a blank slate where people can say "If he had been able to serve out his term he would have [Whatever thing they think he should have done] and everything would be so much better now"

Reagan doesn't have that going for him though, no idea why he is considered the love child of King Arthur and Superman among his fans.
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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Skeeve » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:28 pm

Lets see, Ray-Gun started the war against unions....

The Strike That Busted Unions

Ole Orange has threatened to do some stuff, but so far nothing that sweeping......
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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Doctor X » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:00 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:I think part of it with JFK actually IS the assasination.

Makes him a blank slate where people can say "If he had been able to serve out his term he would have [Whatever thing they think he should have done] and everything would be so much better now"
THAT!

Why I use t3h funn3h sport analogies: "If only Grady Little pulled Pedro!!11!" you probably win the ALCS . . . then lose yet another WS to the team that took the MFYs to the Federal Pound-Me-in-the-Ass Prison. Then you cry after "86 years!," are stuck with a bad manager, maybe get A-Fraud McSlappy which [Get on with it!--Ed.]

Right, or to quote Uncle Rico: "If coach had put me in in the 4th quarter. . . ."

RFK, a virulent racist trying to catch up with his brother's womanizing, is seen as the man who broke Hoover and IF HE RAN there would be no Nixon or Disco. Oh and Vietnam would have been awesome.
Reagan doesn't have that going for him though, no idea why he is considered the love child of King Arthur and Superman among his fans.
He had vision. More specifically, he was able to convince enough in the Soviet government that, no, he was not planning to attack. That over-simplifies because elements in the Soviet government had to do the same for the Americans, he lured them into their own Vietnam, his military build-up forced reciprocal spending, blah . . . blah . . . blah.

Imagine if he died in his assassination? He would be a god.

Still, the hilarious satire Not Necessarily the News opined:
Make Mondale President

Make Reagan King
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Re: The Gipper vs. The Donald

Post by Skeeve » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:53 am

Oh and lest we forget: Ronald Reagan and the Great Social Security Heist
Ronald Reagan was one of the most popular presidents in modern history. As a former Hollywood actor, he had an uncommon degree of charisma. The conservatives absolutely loved Reagan for his efforts to reduce the size of government, but most liberals hated him with a passion. Reagan is still revered by a lot of Americans. This reverence for Ronald Reagan helps to explain how he was able to fool most of the American people to a degree unparalleled by any other modern president. With the help of Alan Greenspan, Reagan pulled off one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated against the American people.
...
Instead of being a proud day for America, April 20, 1983, has become a day of shame. The Social Security Amendments of 1983 laid the foundation for 30-years of federal embezzlement of Social Security money in order to use the money to pay for wars, tax cuts and other government programs. The payroll tax hike of 1983 generated a total of $2.7 trillion in surplus Social Security revenue. This surplus revenue was supposed to be saved and invested in marketable U.S. Treasury bonds that would be held in the trust fund until the baby boomers began to retire in about 2010. But not one dime of that money went to Social Security.

The 1983 legislation was sold to the public, and to the Congress, as a long-term fix for Social Security. The payroll tax hike was designed to generate large Social Security surpluses for 30 years, which would be set aside to cover the increased cost of paying benefits when the boomers retired.
...
Social Security was certainly not Reagan’s “highest priority.” Reagan had never been a friend of Social Security. He was a hardliner when it came to all government social programs. He called unemployment insurance “a prepaid vacation plan for freeloaders.” ...
There is no way that anyone who knew Reagan’s record would accept his claim that Social Security was his highest priority. He had always wanted the program eliminated, or at least privatized.

Reagan’s scare tactics worked. Congress passed the Social Security Amendments of 1983, which included a hefty increase in the payroll tax rate. The tax increase was designed to generate large Social Security surpluses for the next 30 years. The public was led to believe that the surplus money would be saved and invested in marketable U.S. Treasury Bonds, which could later be resold to raise cash with which to pay benefits to the boomers. But that didn’t happen. The money was all deposited directly into the general fund and used for non-Social Security purposes. Reagan spent every dime of the surplus Social Security revenue, which came in during his presidency, on general government operations. His successor, George H.W. Bush, used the surplus money as a giant slush fund, and both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush looted and spent all of the Social Security surplus revenue that flowed in during their presidencies. So we can’t blame the whole problem on Reagan. Reagan was the one who figured out a way to use Social Security money as general revenue, and his successors just followed his example.
Just sayin....
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