July 4 Civil War

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70361
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3054 times
Been thanked: 1136 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:19 pm

Back when there was a British Empire, there was free trade within the empire.

But that's not the sort of thing we are talking about is it?
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
RCC: Act II
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:21 pm

ed wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
ed wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
The more I think about it the more it might have to do with those that see the world as a zero sum situation. In a truly zero-sum situation where, say, wealth, is finite, being motivated to impoverish others and being motivated to gain wealth are the same thing.
I believe that the zero sum philosophy is precisely what drives the left. They want what others have rather than figuring out ways to grow the pie.
Maybe some, but it isn't like Keynesians are arguing against economic growth or anything.
The implication of their argument is stagnation.
We are talking intent here.

As to merits, pretty much all basic theories end in tears when they refuse to adjust to feedback.

User avatar
RCC: Act II
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:32 pm

xouper wrote:
I have not seen it here in this thread with respect to anything relating to Trump.


I guess strong reasoning is whining about feeling insulted.

Oh, and fuck.

Dipshit.

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33356
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1691 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by Grammatron » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:37 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:"Free trade" if it is anything other than a meaningless slogan, means no third party involved between buyer and seller across national borders.
And quite literally nobody wants that. Even libertarians when you put them on the spot.

A treaty with all kinds of rules and regulations is not a free trade agreement, even if it is called that.
If "Free Trade" doesn't exist, then why shouldn't USA get better deals?

User avatar
RCC: Act II
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:46 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Back when there was a British Empire, there was free trade within the empire.

But that's not the sort of thing we are talking about is it?
Nah. Mostly it is about allowing international supply lines to exist so that economic efficiency is not hampered by imaginary lines drawn on a map.

Or it is just neo-colonialism on the pretense that people in developing countries with deeply corrupt governments are voluntarily and happily working in unsafe sweatshops to make me a pair of socks for $.50 less than it would have cost had they been made in Buckhannon, WV or if the price weren't heavily subsidized by the government in the form of a navy that allows this shit to get here without being hijacked.

etc.

User avatar
xouper
Posts: 8621
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:52 am
Location: HockeyTown USA
Has thanked: 213 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:55 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
xouper wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Either we prosper or we don't, and at the status quo the US was definitely doing well.
An excessive trade deficit is not "doing well". It is not sustainable. Something needed to be done, and history will record whether Trump's tactics worked or not.
Nothing is sustainable.

If it works, it works.
Except it wasn't working.

User avatar
xouper
Posts: 8621
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:52 am
Location: HockeyTown USA
Has thanked: 213 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:57 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
xouper wrote:I have not seen it here in this thread with respect to anything relating to Trump.
I guess strong reasoning is whining about feeling insulted.

Oh, and fuck.

Dipshit.
You just demonstrated my point.

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33356
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1691 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by Grammatron » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:03 pm

xouper wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
xouper wrote:I have not seen it here in this thread with respect to anything relating to Trump.
I guess strong reasoning is whining about feeling insulted.

Oh, and fuck.

Dipshit.
You just demonstrated my point.
He was joking though

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70361
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3054 times
Been thanked: 1136 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:04 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:"Free trade" if it is anything other than a meaningless slogan, means no third party involved between buyer and seller across national borders.
And quite literally nobody wants that. Even libertarians when you put them on the spot.

A treaty with all kinds of rules and regulations is not a free trade agreement, even if it is called that.
If "Free Trade" doesn't exist, then why shouldn't USA get better deals?
My point really.

The only issue really is whether or not Trump is doing a good job of looking after our interests, not how well he adheres to some moralistic hokey about "free trade".

I'm taking a wait and see attitude, mainly because what else am I going to do?
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 67118
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3321 times
Been thanked: 2098 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by Doctor X » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:14 pm

I will remind a Cunt, with the uncial [Stop that.--Ed.], is someone who feasts upon the carcasses of the dead and exploits the suffering of the victims for his own personal advantage.

It does not simply mean "disagrees with me," or even "is a willfully ignorant asshat."

I will further add I find curious the practice of Ignoring someone then continually reminding everyone you are Ignoring him. What is the point?

Image

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!
AL East Champs!!

User avatar
xouper
Posts: 8621
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:52 am
Location: HockeyTown USA
Has thanked: 213 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:20 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:I can reason just fine. I can also juggle. Both have the same effect on people who are just looking for an excuse to not give a shit about sticking children in cages, labeling the press as the enemy of the people, and floating absurd conspiracy theories about the FBI as political cover.
Fake news.

1. Most of the pictures of kids in cages were taken when Obama was president. One of the photos was even staged (faked) as a publicity stunt.

2. Fake news media is indeed the enemy of the people. Here's an inconvenient fact: Trump was referring to fake news, not all of the press. Of course that doesn't stop people with Trump Derangement Syndrome  from spinning it to suit the outrage du jour.

3. About the FBI as political cover, what absurd conspiracy theories are you referring to? Be specific.

User avatar
xouper
Posts: 8621
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:52 am
Location: HockeyTown USA
Has thanked: 213 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:27 pm

Grammatron wrote:
xouper wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
xouper wrote:I have not seen it here in this thread with respect to anything relating to Trump.
I guess strong reasoning is whining about feeling insulted.

Oh, and fuck.

Dipshit.
You just demonstrated my point.
He was joking though
I wondered about that, especially with the reference to "Oh, and fuck" which is a classic inside joke on this forum.

However, if he was joking — and I will accept your assertion on that — then would you indulge me and explain what he meant with his remark about "strong reasoning"?

User avatar
RCC: Act II
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by RCC: Act II » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:14 am

xouper wrote:
2. Fake news media is indeed the enemy of the people.
Maybe you aren't quite grasping the bigger issue with that statement.

(hint: the enemy of the people part)

User avatar
RCC: Act II
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by RCC: Act II » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:23 am

xouper wrote:
then would you indulge me and explain what he meant with his remark about "strong reasoning"?
I was 100% mocking you for being a whiny bitch about hurt feelings rather than contributing anything of substance.

I guess it would be more civil to call Trump supporters enemies of the people than as assholes, idiots, or whatever frivolous insult I can think of, but I'm not perfect.

(that was also mockery)

Dipshit.

(that part was a joke)

User avatar
Giz
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 121 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by Giz » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:49 am

RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Back when there was a British Empire, there was free trade within the empire.

But that's not the sort of thing we are talking about is it?
Nah. Mostly it is about allowing international supply lines to exist so that economic efficiency is not hampered by imaginary lines drawn on a map.
.
Because a nation state borders reflect something more important than "imaginary lines"

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 13901
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1847 times
Been thanked: 580 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by sparks » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:53 am

Fuck this shit. Can't help Cunts.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
Giz
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 121 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by Giz » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:08 am

sparks wrote:Fuck this shit. Can't help Cunts.
Directed at me, or xouper? Or both?

Insults lose something when you're not even sure who /what is being referenced.

User avatar
RCC: Act II
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by RCC: Act II » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:16 am

Giz wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Back when there was a British Empire, there was free trade within the empire.

But that's not the sort of thing we are talking about is it?
Nah. Mostly it is about allowing international supply lines to exist so that economic efficiency is not hampered by imaginary lines drawn on a map.
.
Because a nation state borders reflect something more important than "imaginary lines"
Like what? I can think of a lot of things, but none of them are particularly good. Maybe removing some ambiguity for administrative purposes. Really though, I'd consider the WV/PA border an imaginary line in practice.

User avatar
Giz
Posts: 1017
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 121 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by Giz » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:29 am

RCC: Act II wrote:
Giz wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Back when there was a British Empire, there was free trade within the empire.

But that's not the sort of thing we are talking about is it?
Nah. Mostly it is about allowing international supply lines to exist so that economic efficiency is not hampered by imaginary lines drawn on a map.
.
Because a nation state borders reflect something more important than "imaginary lines"

Like what? I can think of a lot of things, but none of them are particularly good. Maybe removing some ambiguity for administrative purposes. Really though, I'd consider the WV/PA border an imaginary line in practice.
Are PA and WV nation states? Is the tariff war about PA and WV commerce? Do you know what you are talking about?


(No, no and no)

User avatar
RCC: Act II
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: July 4 Civil War

Post by RCC: Act II » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:30 am

Grammatron wrote:
xouper wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
xouper wrote:I have not seen it here in this thread with respect to anything relating to Trump.
I guess strong reasoning is whining about feeling insulted.

Oh, and fuck.

Dipshit.
You just demonstrated my point.
He was joking though
There is a deep irony in that I sort of adopted this excessive rudeness/profanity schtick because of Claus's bullshit whining about rude responses to his attacks mostly relating to... well...

Life comes at us fast.