Clarity on Trump

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Clarity on Trump

Post by ed » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:45 am

I must say that if one does not maintain focus on current events one can become confused easily. And since I start out confused, this is particularly horrifying.

I need to know: is the refrain of the left that Trump is Putins puppet and that he colluded with the russkis factual in any way?

I note that the comments associated with many stories simply assume that Trump is a Russian stooge.

For example read some of the comments here
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/23/us/p ... n=top-news

I really do think, pending refutation, that this is a wag the dog moment.

Talking news head: There are reports denied by the White House that the President is conducting talks on the B3 Bomber
Connie Breen: Now they're getting it
Completely fabricated, endlessly repeated, 100% believed
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by ed » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:58 am

Ronny
Dublin, CA12m ago

I hope one of these career professionals being attacked by Donald Trump has the courage to tell the American people what they know about Trump's conspiracy with the Russians. The Republicans have been covering up for Trump for 2 years now. The American people deserve to know if their president is a Russian Agent.
QED
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by xouper » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:11 pm

http://dailycaller.com/2018/07/22/gowdy-adam-schiff-leak-collusion/ wrote:
Gowdy: If Collusion Evidence Existed, Adam Schiff Would Have Leaked It
Chuck Ross, 07/22/2018


. . . “I have not seen one scintilla of evidence that this president colluded, conspired, confederated with Russia, and neither has anyone else, or you may rest assured Adam Schiff would have leaked it,” Gowdy said during an interview . . .

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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by ed » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:04 pm

So this is it then?
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:39 pm

Unlike various outrages du jour, the Democrats cannot just move to the next one with the Russian collusion business.

It is not merely part of The NarrativeTM, it is central to their self image.

It cannot be admitted that Hillary could have done anything different and got better results. Never.
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:24 am

xouper wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:11 pm
http://dailycaller.com/2018/07/22/gowdy-adam-schiff-leak-collusion/ wrote:
Gowdy: If Collusion Evidence Existed, Adam Schiff Would Have Leaked It
Chuck Ross, 07/22/2018


. . . “I have not seen one scintilla of evidence that this president colluded, conspired, confederated with Russia, and neither has anyone else, or you may rest assured Adam Schiff would have leaked it,” Gowdy said during an interview . . .
As long as this is a thread about "clarity" we need to remember that "collusion" is not a crime.
Further, neither Adam Schiff nor Trey Gowdy is privy to whatever evidence Mueller has, to the best of my knowledge. He may have evidence of other crimes. The US Attorney for the Southern District of New York may have evidence of something via Cohen.

I do think that Trump publicly encouraged Russia to meddle in the election when he said "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing." It didn't have to be something that happened behind closed doors or via secret go-betweens. And I'm not even saying that was a crime. Of course, Russia was not able to find Hillary's 30,000 emails, but they did manage to hack the DNC and Podesta.

I don't know where it will all lead to, but I don't think it's all over yet by any shot and I doubt that Mueller has already indicted everyone he is going to before he is finished.
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by Witness » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:43 am

Apart from the Russia stuff, it will be difficult to have clarity on Trump per se:

"Chiche !" (I dare you) as the Froggies say… :mrgreen:

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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by sparks » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:48 am

Collusion isn't necessarily a crime, but it can be.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collusion
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by gnome » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:57 am

For my own part, I think Putin's influence on Trump comes from Trump admiring him and wanting to be like him, or at least to have the same amount of power over this country.
Until compelling evidence emerges I've no particular reason to think there was any kind of election manipulating collusion. But I'm glad we're checking. If it all comes up zilch, I'll consider the matter settled.
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by WildCat » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:31 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:24 am
As long as this is a thread about "clarity" we need to remember that "collusion" is not a crime.
Further, neither Adam Schiff nor Trey Gowdy is privy to whatever evidence Mueller has, to the best of my knowledge. He may have evidence of other crimes. The US Attorney for the Southern District of New York may have evidence of something via Cohen.

I do think that Trump publicly encouraged Russia to meddle in the election when he said "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing." It didn't have to be something that happened behind closed doors or via secret go-betweens. And I'm not even saying that was a crime. Of course, Russia was not able to find Hillary's 30,000 emails, but they did manage to hack the DNC and Podesta.

I don't know where it will all lead to, but I don't think it's all over yet by any shot and I doubt that Mueller has already indicted everyone he is going to before he is finished.
Do you think Mueller would be sitting on information trump was a Russian stooge if he had it? That's not something you keep under your hat until all the Manafort financial crimes from 10 years ago get sorted out. Mueller has shit. His indicting 12 Russians who will never see the inside of a US court is proof of it. It's pure face-saving desperation, like kicking a field goal when you're down by 5 touchdowns with 20 seconds left in the 4th quarter.
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:50 am

WildCat wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:31 am
Do you think Mueller would be sitting on information trump was a Russian stooge if he had it? That's not something you keep under your hat until all the Manafort financial crimes from 10 years ago get sorted out. Mueller has shit. His indicting 12 Russians who will never see the inside of a US court is proof of it. It's pure face-saving desperation, like kicking a field goal when you're down by 5 touchdowns with 20 seconds left in the 4th quarter.
Actually I do think that he would "sit on" that sort of information if he had it for a number of reasons.

The first being that it would be illegal to leak it. The second being he wouldn't want to tip his hand prematurely. Leaking it could jeopardize his whole case. If there is prosecutorial misconduct, a judge could throw the whole case out. It could also be grounds for an appeal.

So no, it would be foolish to leak anything.
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by WildCat » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:25 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:50 am
WildCat wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:31 am
Do you think Mueller would be sitting on information trump was a Russian stooge if he had it? That's not something you keep under your hat until all the Manafort financial crimes from 10 years ago get sorted out. Mueller has shit. His indicting 12 Russians who will never see the inside of a US court is proof of it. It's pure face-saving desperation, like kicking a field goal when you're down by 5 touchdowns with 20 seconds left in the 4th quarter.
Actually I do think that he would "sit on" that sort of information if he had it for a number of reasons.

The first being that it would be illegal to leak it. The second being he wouldn't want to tip his hand prematurely. Leaking it could jeopardize his whole case. If there is prosecutorial misconduct, a judge could throw the whole case out. It could also be grounds for an appeal.

So no, it would be foolish to leak anything.
You think he'd allow a President compromised by Russia to continue to hold office? I can't even wrap ny head around that, the potential for harm is far too great if it were true.
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by Doctor X » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:58 am

Yeah, have to agree with WildCat on that one. It all depends upon the quality of the "evidences"--thanks--if it is as you suggest, actual evidence Trump is a Russian stooge, he does not have to worry about prosecuting him. Even the Republicans in the House would not save Trump, certainly before mid-terms. Nor, frankly, would enough Republicans in the Senate. Trump would be done. Abandoned. Fox would be promoting how lucky we are to have Pense rather than Her Turn.

So I do not think that is the case.

If Mueller is trying to "catch" him in a lie--which is what Feds do--then it is not something the House would necessarily impeach over, certainly without a Democrat majority. Even then, there is no way that the Dems gain 2/3ds of the Senate to convict. Then what is the "point" from Mueller's standpoint to get it out early? No, he wants actual crimes. Whether or not a sitting President can be indicted becomes irrelevant since impeachment becomes the primary modality.

Clinton lied under oath. He committed perjury. Was he ever prosecuted? In a way he was in that he lost his law license after his term ended, but otherwise, no, certainly not federally.

Given that Mueller is not actually a Democrat "shill" risen up from the Stygian sewers that brought us Obama and New York City, I doubt that he is going to wave about a technicality against Trump. I also doubt that he would let someone remain President a day longer than necessary if he has "Da Smokin' Gun." Could you imagine, say, Trump concludes a treaty with the Lone Fat Boy in North Korea, then a few months later it is learned that Mueller knew Trump paid Putin Vlad I for golden showers and the opportunity to invade Detroit? That he knew it for, say, a year?

I do not think Mueller is that stupid. So, at this stage, I suspect if he is trying to "nail" Trump he is trying to do so in the manner they "nailed" Martha Stewart.

Anyways, you want "balls" and "chutzpah," see Rob Blagoyavichiadekurt's Waifu trying to cast his claims on tape that he wants something in exchange for Obama's senate seat as being "an abuse of power by the FBI." They are trying to pretend they are victims to convince Trump to pardon him. His substantive appeals failed. He will continue to rot--as he should.

Incidentally, his case--in the state where all governors seem to retire in federal prison whatever the party!--is a good example of "how it should work." After a bipartisan committee voted to recommend impeachment 21-0, he was impeached and EVERYONE in the House save one Chicago Machine Member voted to impeach: 114-1. After the next election, the House reaffirmed the impeachment 117-1, and the lone dissenter his sister-in-law: Deborah Mell. I am not making that up. The Illinois Senate unanimously voted 59-0 to remove his ass.

Even in the cesspool that is Illinois politics, "let right be done!"

The same would happen if Mueller had such evidences.

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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:31 am

gnome wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:57 am
... If it all comes up zilch, I'll consider the matter settled.
gnome ==> :godwin:






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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by ed » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:49 am

You know, when My Turn was running against the Kenyon Usurper my bro asked me if I thought there was anything to that Kenyon stuff. My answer was that if there were anything whatsoever bad about Obama, Her Turn would have found it. She was, in effect, our protection.

Sorta the same thing here. If Mueller had something bad, really bad, it would be out. I disagree on the lying crap. If after all the hoopla, the best he can do is a Martha Stewart I suggest that he will simply say nothing and fade away. Otherwise the Dems will be laughed at by everyone.
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by gnome » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:56 pm

Why wouldn't Mueller, a Republican, want the Dems to be laughed at?
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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:25 pm

You may be familiar with the line of reasoning that the improvement in the economy is not really Trump's doing.
Hard to prove either way.

Then there's the line of reasoning that it really isn't an improvement.
That seems to be more or less the official Democratic Party line.

Then there's the theory that Trump is so evil he consciously and deliberately improved the economy to distract us from RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by Grammatron » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:43 pm

Speaking of almost pulling a muscle...

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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by Giz » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:12 pm

ed wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:49 am
You know, when My Turn was running against the Kenyon Usurper my bro asked me if I thought there was anything to that Kenyon stuff. My answer was that if there were anything whatsoever bad about Obama, Her Turn would have found it. She was, in effect, our protection.
Yes, indeed. I absolutely trusted her to provide ‘due diligence’ due to her own self interest. When she said nothing, I was pretty sure that nothing was there.
ed wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:49 am

Sorta the same thing here. If Mueller had something bad, really bad, it would be out. I disagree on the lying crap. If after all the hoopla, the best he can do is a Martha Stewart I suggest that he will simply say nothing and fade away. Otherwise the Dems will be laughed at by everyone.
I dunno. I think that a lot of dems would see getting Trump on a process crime to be equivalent to getting Capone on tax evasion. (Except they think that he is worse than Capone)

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Re: Clarity on Trump

Post by ed » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:22 pm

Except except except that the narritive is that Trump is the AntiChrist, Hitler, and worse rolled into one. To nail him for jaywalking is sorta anticlimactic, no?
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