Democrats Embrace Anarchy

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WildCat
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by WildCat » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:31 am

RCC: Act II wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:48 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:46 am
I don't know what the one ideal amount might be, but the amount spent per pupil in Chicago would buy a decent education at a not too fancy private school.
There is simply no way to objectively measure the effectiveness of a public school, especially in impoverished areas. Being engaged with students enough so that a child can be removed from a sexually abusive home doesn't translate well to proficiency testing. Neither does the win of just keeping a kid whose parents DGAF interested enough to even get on the bus and come to school at all.

Directly comparing what is a hybrid social service / education institution with a purely educational institution that has control over pupil choice is madness. One effect of slashing social spending is that the burden of dealing with those problems has fallen squarely on the public schools and in too many cases on individual teachers spending their own money because they are the ones that have to deal with this.
How extremely racist of you to assume all minority students are sexually abused and have parents who don't give a fuck.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Grammatron » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:43 am

RCC: Act II wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:48 pm
There is simply no way to objectively measure the effectiveness of a public school, especially in impoverished areas.
What is so magical about public schools that they can't be objectively measured? At some point in the pipeline of education there's incompetence, ignorance, or complete lack of caring either by an individual or as part of the system itself. Objectively that can be located and solutions can be derived.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by shuize » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:50 am

Grammatron wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:43 am
RCC: Act II wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:48 pm
There is simply no way to objectively measure the effectiveness of a public school, especially in impoverished areas.
What is so magical about public schools that they can't be objectively measured? At some point in the pipeline of education there's incompetence, ignorance, or complete lack of caring either by an individual or as part of the system itself. Objectively that can be located and solutions can be derived.

Just remember, when teachers and their unions oppose any sort of standardized tests to measure performance, it's really all about the kids.
Last edited by shuize on Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by WildCat » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:14 am

Grammatron wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:43 am
RCC: Act II wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:48 pm
There is simply no way to objectively measure the effectiveness of a public school, especially in impoverished areas.
What is so magical about public schools that they can't be objectively measured? At some point in the pipeline of education there's incompetence, ignorance, or complete lack of caring either by an individual or as part of the system itself. Objectively that can be located and solutions can be derived.
Dontcha know? public schools and their teachers cannot ever be evaluated and measured against standards because reasons and besides that the kids can't be taught anyway because all minority kids are sexually abused and from homes where nobody gives a fuck because they're on crack. All the teachers and schools can be expected to do is provide day care, oh and you have to pay them $80K+ per year because it takes a master's degree and 3 months off every summer to be glorified babysitters. It's just a happy circumstance that raising uneducated kids leads to government dependency and Democrat voters, that would never be part of the plan.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:28 pm

WildCat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:31 am
How extremely racist of you to assume all minority students are sexually abused and have parents who don't give a fuck.
He didn't say "minority" and I'm guessing he's speaking about the situation in West Virginia.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by ed » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:46 pm

You have to be able to read with comprehension and do multiplication and division using word problems

Not really hard if you want to know. If you don't want to know, it is impossible.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:09 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:43 am
RCC: Act II wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:48 pm
There is simply no way to objectively measure the effectiveness of a public school, especially in impoverished areas.
What is so magical about public schools that they can't be objectively measured? At some point in the pipeline of education there's incompetence, ignorance, or complete lack of caring either by an individual or as part of the system itself. Objectively that can be located and solutions can be derived.
If someone comes up with a system to objectively measure what impact a school has on a community, then fine. I'm just extremely dubious of using academic progress in a vacuum, especially when comparing public / private, as well as looking at per capita spending when the circumstances are totally different.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by ed » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:16 pm

That is a fairly elitist position. What about the issue of kids looking for employment and not being able to multiply 3 times 7? Or being able to read a work order? Or write one? You are worried about these highfalutin' problems when the basic blocking and tackling gets ignored. That has more of an impact on the community than anything else I can think of.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:35 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:28 pm
WildCat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:31 am
How extremely racist of you to assume all minority students are sexually abused and have parents who don't give a fuck.
He didn't say "minority" and I'm guessing he's speaking about the situation in West Virginia.
Forget it, he's rolling.

It's amusing when people rage against absurd strawmen they build out of racism, ignorance, incredulity, and a total lack of empathy.

It's important to make education available, but sometimes getting kids fed and getting them interested in a base level of proficiency or even interested in learning to play a sport carries a ton of value. A kid that only goes to school to be on the basketball team gets two free meals a day even if he does the bare minimum in class is a far better result than the kid becoming a truancy case because he sees no reason to go and the parents DGAF.

Of course, that kid is going to lower test scores so the school has some motive to get rid of him if they are made to worry about proficiency scores.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:42 pm

ed wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:16 pm
That is a fairly elitist position. What about the issue of kids looking for employment and not being able to multiply 3 times 7? Or being able to read a work order? Or write one? You are worried about these highfalutin' problems when the basic blocking and tackling gets ignored. That has more of an impact on the community than anything else I can think of.
What highfalutin problem is that exactly?

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm

WildCat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:31 am

How extremely racist of you to assume all minority students are sexually abused and have parents who don't give a fuck.
Everything you are saying is absolutely stupid on so many levels that I'm just going to point out that your using the word "all" in the above sentence is a great example of why you have become a raving lunatic who isn't worth taking seriously.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm

All I can say is, New York City and Chicago public schools spend a lot of money on what amount to service academies for dependency and prison.

And that more money to the existing system will not fix the problem.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by ed » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:57 pm

Anything other than prepping these kids to work is highfalutin'. Sports are nice but don't really reflect the real world. Fact is that whatever is being done isn't working and is creating a permanent underclass.

Can that be denied?
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:50 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm
All I can say is, New York City and Chicago public schools spend a lot of money on what amount to service academies for dependency and prison.

And that more money to the existing system will not fix the problem.
The system is what it is because of poor funding and (urban more than rural) community disinterest. The idea that more money for books, facilities, programs, etc. wont have some positive impact is nonsense.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:54 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:50 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm
All I can say is, New York City and Chicago public schools spend a lot of money on what amount to service academies for dependency and prison.

And that more money to the existing system will not fix the problem.
The system is what it is because of poor funding and (urban more than rural) community disinterest. The idea that more money for books, facilities, programs, etc. wont have some positive impact is nonsense.
In other words, they'd have to embrace radical change to the system, not just increase funding.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by ed » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:55 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:50 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm
All I can say is, New York City and Chicago public schools spend a lot of money on what amount to service academies for dependency and prison.

And that more money to the existing system will not fix the problem.
The system is what it is because of poor funding and (urban more than rural) community disinterest. The idea that more money for books, facilities, programs, etc. wont have some positive impact is nonsense.
Is there a correlation between spending and results? Chicago now spends over $16,000 per student per year and the schools are horrific. California spends boatloads of money and they are rapidly becoming the worst state for education, ranked 46th last I checked. ---wildcat
So what is the right amount?
Do you think that racism enters into it? I mean, if there are disruptions in chicago schools, do you think that administrators are comfortable disciplining black students?
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:14 pm

ed wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:57 pm
Anything other than prepping these kids to work is highfalutin'. Sports are nice but don't really reflect the real world. Fact is that whatever is being done isn't working and is creating a permanent underclass.

Can that be denied?
Sports reflect the real world way, way, way more than what happens in classes. Especially learning responsibility, accountability, respect, and so on. Not to mention social mobility. A desperately poor kid that gets Bs instead of Cs is not going to do as well as the C student on the football team that makes a lot of friends that aren't in desperate poverty and from them gains contacts and maybe adopts some values that do not glorify aspects of the underclass.

The existence of a permanent underclass has little to do with the quality of education. You want to get rid of generational poverty, it's going to take a fuckload more than just firing teachers who don't reach test score quotas. It isn't a matter of prepping them to work. It is a matter of them being from a class with a value system that doesn't really see working hard to earn a living as a good thing.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:26 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:54 pm
RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:50 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm
All I can say is, New York City and Chicago public schools spend a lot of money on what amount to service academies for dependency and prison.

And that more money to the existing system will not fix the problem.
The system is what it is because of poor funding and (urban more than rural) community disinterest. The idea that more money for books, facilities, programs, etc. wont have some positive impact is nonsense.
In other words, they'd have to embrace radical change to the system, not just increase funding.
Significant funding increases would cause radical changes over time. Needs differ, but having a school not being a shithole and rather being a nice building that has additional community uses can remedy community disinterest and that can make a massive difference just in itself.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:35 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:26 pm
In other words, they'd have to embrace radical change to the system, not just increase funding.
Significant funding increases would cause radical changes over time ...
More funding first, then wait?

The money doesn't get skimmed off in the mean time?

Must be an awfully honest bunch running the schools where you live. :roll:
Last edited by Abdul Alhazred on Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Skeeve » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:36 pm

ed wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:55 pm
RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:50 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm
All I can say is, New York City and Chicago public schools spend a lot of money on what amount to service academies for dependency and prison.

And that more money to the existing system will not fix the problem.
The system is what it is because of poor funding and (urban more than rural) community disinterest. The idea that more money for books, facilities, programs, etc. wont have some positive impact is nonsense.
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