Democrats Embrace Anarchy

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Grammatron » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:58 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:09 pm
Grammatron wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:43 am
RCC: Act II wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:48 pm
There is simply no way to objectively measure the effectiveness of a public school, especially in impoverished areas.
What is so magical about public schools that they can't be objectively measured? At some point in the pipeline of education there's incompetence, ignorance, or complete lack of caring either by an individual or as part of the system itself. Objectively that can be located and solutions can be derived.
If someone comes up with a system to objectively measure what impact a school has on a community, then fine. I'm just extremely dubious of using academic progress in a vacuum, especially when comparing public / private, as well as looking at per capita spending when the circumstances are totally different.
If the kids can't read nor write the school has failed the community.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:17 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:35 pm
RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:26 pm
In other words, they'd have to embrace radical change to the system, not just increase funding.
Significant funding increases would cause radical changes over time ...
More funding first, then wait?

The money doesn't get skimmed off in the mean time?

Must be an awfully honest bunch running the schools where you live. :roll:
The part you edited out for one. A poor kid that goes into a nice building and that has books that aren't crumbling and access to computers and the teachers well trained and dedicated to the career is going to get a far different idea of how the world views him than the one that goes into the shithole with old books and teachers that could give a fuck because they are overwhelmed and looking for other work anyway.

If we are going to assume total corruption, then no change helps. That's just irrelevant.

Conservative handwringing over education is just scapegoating educational professionals for the result of their draconian anti-poverty policies. Liberal handwringing isn't much better because their fighting poverty by helping the middle class bullshit relies on the same fundamental error that class distinctions aren't cultural or meaningful

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:21 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:58 pm



If the kids can't read nor write the school has failed the community.
Looking at the community and the schools as separate entities is pretty much the problem. That outcome is the community failing the child.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:25 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:35 pm


Must be an awfully honest bunch running the schools where you live. :roll:
Probably is compared to a community with little interest or involvement in the system.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Grammatron » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:33 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:21 pm
Grammatron wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:58 pm



If the kids can't read nor write the school has failed the community.
Looking at the community and the schools as separate entities is pretty much the problem. That outcome is the community failing the child.
You'll need to elaborate that for me. You seemed to have broaden the conversation yet removed the context of my quote.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:42 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:17 pm
If we are going to assume total corruption, then no change helps. That's just irrelevant.
If it's observed rather than assumed, does it become relevant?

In effect the real problem is a school system run by a criminal conspiracy.

Not to mention the effect of current education "theory" which is really part of the same system of corruption even though the teachers themselves may be merely stupid in many cases.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by WildCat » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:35 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm
WildCat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:31 am

How extremely racist of you to assume all minority students are sexually abused and have parents who don't give a fuck.
Everything you are saying is absolutely stupid on so many levels that I'm just going to point out that your using the word "all" in the above sentence is a great example of why you have become a raving lunatic who isn't worth taking seriously.
Yeah, how stupid of me to think schools should be about educating children rather than employing adults. My bad, let's just keep throwing money at whatever the teachers unions demand while generation after generation of minority kids are failed by the system you support.

You are a fucktard tool of the highest order. And you don't actually care about the children, you just want to appear that you do while opposing any and all reforms that actually would help. Sometimes I wish there was a hell because virtue signaling assholes like you would be going there.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Skeeve » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:14 pm

A Recent GOP video...



I expect the Democrats could (perhaps have) come up with one of their own.


What ever side one may seem to be on, we truly seem to have "an excluded middle."
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:10 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:33 pm
RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:21 pm
Grammatron wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:58 pm



If the kids can't read nor write the school has failed the community.
Looking at the community and the schools as separate entities is pretty much the problem. That outcome is the community failing the child.
You'll need to elaborate that for me. You seemed to have broaden the conversation yet removed the context of my quote.


There is a scapegoating aspect to political anger over schooling. Bad schools have causes that have zero to do with the academics within school walls. Beyond the obvious things like poverty and lack of support, there is meddling by people who think they know more than the experts that study education who do things like rant about their idea of "common core" or whatever and then politicians get in there and fuck it up to show they are salt of the earth people who know the kids really just need to be taught respect by means of punishment.

Any kid that wants to learn is, absent a profound learning disability, going to learn to read. Getting kids to want to learn is an entirely cultural problem, and when educators try to address that, they tend to get shit on because innovations are mocked by those that don't bother to understand them.

One good example is how to deal with language. I mean, it was 20+ years ago, but the shitstorm over "Ebonics" that continues today poisoned the everloving shit out of a concept that could have really helped children had it been done correctly. It got shit on mostly by strawmanning conservatives, but also by liberals who also missed the point of why approaching basic English in terms of dialects and subdialects would be really goddamn helpful especially when teachers and students tend to come from completely different social classes and backgrounds.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:12 pm

WildCat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:35 pm
RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm
WildCat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:31 am

How extremely racist of you to assume all minority students are sexually abused and have parents who don't give a fuck.
Everything you are saying is absolutely stupid on so many levels that I'm just going to point out that your using the word "all" in the above sentence is a great example of why you have become a raving lunatic who isn't worth taking seriously.
Yeah, how stupid of me to think schools should be about educating children rather than employing adults. My bad, let's just keep throwing money at whatever the teachers unions demand while generation after generation of minority kids are failed by the system you support.

You are a fucktard tool of the highest order. And you don't actually care about the children, you just want to appear that you do while opposing any and all reforms that actually would help. Sometimes I wish there was a hell because virtue signaling assholes like you would be going there.
So, me saying some kids are abused at home and you then claiming that I said all minority students have parents that are apathetic rapists was you making a point about teachers unions rather than you just making shit up and then arguing against it?

Checks out.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:18 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:42 pm
RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:17 pm
If we are going to assume total corruption, then no change helps. That's just irrelevant.
If it's observed rather than assumed, does it become relevant?

In effect the real problem is a school system run by a criminal conspiracy.
Sure. Any large enterprise is going to attract some level of corruption. I think recently we had a cook or something taking food supplies and selling them. Now a convicted felon. Calling standard crime a conspiracy is a bit much.

Not to mention the effect of current education "theory" which is really part of the same system of corruption even though the teachers themselves may be merely stupid in many cases.
This is more in line with the "everyone is an expert" bullshit. Modern education theory is fine. Like anything else there are stops and starts. The bigger issue is with governments shitting over everything and then complaining what remains does not work.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:17 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:18 pm
Sure. Any large enterprise is going to attract some level of corruption.
Such as the Mafia or the Chicago machine. :roll:
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by WildCat » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:46 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:12 pm
WildCat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:35 pm
RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm
WildCat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:31 am

How extremely racist of you to assume all minority students are sexually abused and have parents who don't give a fuck.
Everything you are saying is absolutely stupid on so many levels that I'm just going to point out that your using the word "all" in the above sentence is a great example of why you have become a raving lunatic who isn't worth taking seriously.
Yeah, how stupid of me to think schools should be about educating children rather than employing adults. My bad, let's just keep throwing money at whatever the teachers unions demand while generation after generation of minority kids are failed by the system you support.

You are a fucktard tool of the highest order. And you don't actually care about the children, you just want to appear that you do while opposing any and all reforms that actually would help. Sometimes I wish there was a hell because virtue signaling assholes like you would be going there.
So, me saying some kids are abused at home and you then claiming that I said all minority students have parents that are apathetic rapists was you making a point about teachers unions rather than you just making shit up and then arguing against it?

Checks out.
You claimed the reason school districts in poor areas (and we all know that means "minority areas") suck is because the kids are being sexually abused. Surely that must be a large percentage to cause an entire school to fail?

Are there any education reforms you would support? Do you think minority parents are smart enough to send their kids to better schools if given a choice? If so don't you think they should be given that choice?
Do you have questions about God?

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:59 pm

WildCat wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:46 pm
RCC: Act II wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:12 pm
WildCat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:35 pm
RCC: Act II wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm
WildCat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:31 am

How extremely racist of you to assume all minority students are sexually abused and have parents who don't give a fuck.
Everything you are saying is absolutely stupid on so many levels that I'm just going to point out that your using the word "all" in the above sentence is a great example of why you have become a raving lunatic who isn't worth taking seriously.
Yeah, how stupid of me to think schools should be about educating children rather than employing adults. My bad, let's just keep throwing money at whatever the teachers unions demand while generation after generation of minority kids are failed by the system you support.

You are a fucktard tool of the highest order. And you don't actually care about the children, you just want to appear that you do while opposing any and all reforms that actually would help. Sometimes I wish there was a hell because virtue signaling assholes like you would be going there.
So, me saying some kids are abused at home and you then claiming that I said all minority students have parents that are apathetic rapists was you making a point about teachers unions rather than you just making shit up and then arguing against it?

Checks out.
You claimed the reason school districts in poor areas (and we all know that means "minority areas")
Ever been to Clay County, WV?


Are there any education reforms you would support? Do you think minority parents are smart enough to send their kids to better schools if given a choice? If so don't you think they should be given that choice?
I support plenty of reforms. Just not the ones driven by people who blame everything on educational professionals and think they know better.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by corplinx » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:11 pm

When I stop hearing about teachers who are friends or married to friends buying supplies to teach their class I will at least have a feeling the schools might not be so underfunded in Mississippi and Arkansas.

A teacher shouldn't be buying their own paper to print handouts for the kids.

A lot of this is local stuff but it sounds like Arizona had some of these issues going on and "starving the beast" until you can get the government to pay for private schools is a really evil strategy. Using kids as pawns in an underfunding game to induce system failure.

Chicago is its own fuckeroo. Go away. We know. You're fucked. We get it.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by gnome » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:37 pm

Goddamn. I've been trying to say that for years and it never sounded that clear.
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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Grammatron » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:55 pm

corplinx wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:11 pm
When I stop hearing about teachers who are friends or married to friends buying supplies to teach their class I will at least have a feeling the schools might not be so underfunded in Mississippi and Arkansas.

A teacher shouldn't be buying their own paper to print handouts for the kids.

A lot of this is local stuff but it sounds like Arizona had some of these issues going on and "starving the beast" until you can get the government to pay for private schools is a really evil strategy. Using kids as pawns in an underfunding game to induce system failure.

Chicago is its own fuckeroo. Go away. We know. You're fucked. We get it.
We're asking schools to do too much and not enough all while holding no one responsible.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Grammatron » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:08 pm

I am not sure what any of that has to do with objectively measuring schools and their quality of education, but I will respond since you took the time to write it.
RCC: Act II wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:10 pm
There is a scapegoating aspect to political anger over schooling. Bad schools have causes that have zero to do with the academics within school walls. Beyond the obvious things like poverty and lack of support, there is meddling by people who think they know more than the experts that study education who do things like rant about their idea of "common core" or whatever and then politicians get in there and fuck it up to show they are salt of the earth people who know the kids really just need to be taught respect by means of punishment.

Any kid that wants to learn is, absent a profound learning disability, going to learn to read.
That's so broad and simplified as to be nearly useless IMO. Any kid, absent a profound learning disability, can learn any subject matter.
Getting kids to want to learn is an entirely cultural problem, and when educators try to address that, they tend to get shit on because innovations are mocked by those that don't bother to understand them.
That's rather the point, the system is not able to teach people just provide resources to those who already have a desire to learn.
One good example is how to deal with language. I mean, it was 20+ years ago, but the shitstorm over "Ebonics" that continues today poisoned the everloving shit out of a concept that could have really helped children had it been done correctly. It got shit on mostly by strawmanning conservatives, but also by liberals who also missed the point of why approaching basic English in terms of dialects and subdialects would be really goddamn helpful especially when teachers and students tend to come from completely different social classes and backgrounds.
Maybe.

On the other hand the school system can teach someone like me a brand new language (English) and then subjects in that language. It seems to follow that teaching people who already speak and understand the English language a common and proper use would be less of a challenge.

Words have meaning, if the school fail to teach that concept we might end up in an endless loop playing semantic games about what the correct meaning of racism is.

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:11 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:08 pm

That's rather the point, the system is not able to teach people just provide resources to those who already have a desire to learn.
Maybe increase the numbers of those with a desire to learn?

Or fuck those people?

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Re: Democrats Embrace Anarchy

Post by Grammatron » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:23 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:11 pm
Grammatron wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:08 pm

That's rather the point, the system is not able to teach people just provide resources to those who already have a desire to learn.
Maybe increase the numbers of those with a desire to learn?

Or fuck those people?
I am angry when the system fails children. The only way to get rid of ignorance in government is to have an education population.