Diversion

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22061
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 389 times

Diversion

Post by gnome » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:03 am

@TheRealDonaldTrump wrote:California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren’t allowing massive amounts of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean. Must also tree clear to stop fire from spreading!
The fuck is he on about? Is he pointing out a real issue?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33461
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1717 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Grammatron » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:09 am

I am not sure if you really want to or just be angry.

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22061
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 389 times

Re: Diversion

Post by gnome » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:12 am

My first impression is that he's just running his (cyber) mouth without thinking. But if there's something real there I'm actually interested.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
shemp
Posts: 5078
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 pm
Title: gnat
Has thanked: 625 times
Been thanked: 448 times

Re: Diversion

Post by shemp » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:49 am

Trump is a violation of the laws of thermodynamics. His skull is empty, but somehow words keep coming out.
"It is not I who is mad! It is I who is crazy!" -- Ren Hoek

Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 67516
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3386 times
Been thanked: 2149 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Doctor X » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:52 am

If there were no trees, there would be no wildfires.

Of course, we would no longer have winds.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!
AL Champions!!!

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 21467
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1388 times
Been thanked: 1178 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:58 am

It could be he's talking about laws that protect salmon and such.

If you don't let the rivers flow to the sea, the salmon cannot reproduce. They swim upstream to their spawning grounds.

Personally I would like to keep the salmon and the rivers in (as much as possible) their natural state.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 21467
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1388 times
Been thanked: 1178 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:01 am

BTW, the rivers aren't being "diverted" into the Pacific, that's their natural state. "Diversion" would be channeling it into other uses.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33461
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1717 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Grammatron » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:29 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:01 am
BTW, the rivers aren't being "diverted" into the Pacific, that's their natural state. "Diversion" would be channeling it into other uses.
Not true. The water is being diverted to the delta.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik ... story.html

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 21467
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1388 times
Been thanked: 1178 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:24 am

Grammatron wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:29 am
Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:01 am
BTW, the rivers aren't being "diverted" into the Pacific, that's their natural state. "Diversion" would be channeling it into other uses.
Not true. The water is being diverted to the delta.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik ... story.html
No. It's being diverted to water crops and for other human uses. Read your own link.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33461
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1717 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Grammatron » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:41 am

California is choosing to route significant amount of water into the delta at the expense of the farming communities.

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 21467
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1388 times
Been thanked: 1178 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:00 am

Grammatron wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:41 am
California is choosing to route significant amount of water into the delta at the expense of the farming communities.

Well, sometimes hard choices need to be made. If you use all of the water for agriculture, the river dies and the estuary dies.

I admit that I don't know enough about the subject to say whether they've struck the best balance between competing interests, but there is a trade-off.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33461
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1717 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Grammatron » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:07 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:00 am
Grammatron wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:41 am
California is choosing to route significant amount of water into the delta at the expense of the farming communities.

Well, sometimes hard choices need to be made. If you use all of the water for agriculture, the river dies and the estuary dies.

I admit that I don't know enough about the subject to say whether they've struck the best balance between competing interests, but there is a trade-off.
Absolutely. I actually don't know enough myself to have an opinion.

If you are ever back in California and drive out from San Louis Obispo toward Interstate 5 and then up North, you will no doubt see these kinds of signs.

Image

Image

These are from few years ago but they update them.

I am not sure who is right here and farmers putting these signs up are obviously incredibly biased on the matter. Trump did campaign on this matter so this is just more of that, no doubt.

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 21467
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1388 times
Been thanked: 1178 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:53 am

No doubt some farmers are hurt.

The other thing is, let's say for the sake of argument that we give the farmers all the water they are asking for.

Does that prevent the sort of wildfires that are currently causing so much damage?

Trump claimed:
California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren’t allowing massive amounts of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean. Must also tree clear to stop fire from spreading!


A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33031
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 438 times
Been thanked: 752 times

Re: Diversion

Post by ed » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:01 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:00 am
Grammatron wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:41 am
California is choosing to route significant amount of water into the delta at the expense of the farming communities.

Well, sometimes hard choices need to be made.

I admit that I don't know enough about the subject to say whether they've struck the best balance between competing interests, but there is a trade-off.
DEATH PANELS!

You admit it.!@!! :x :x
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
shemp
Posts: 5078
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 pm
Title: gnat
Has thanked: 625 times
Been thanked: 448 times

Re: Diversion

Post by shemp » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:24 pm

Mankind is doing its best to fuck itself into oblivion as fast as possible. Trump only accelerates the pace.
"It is not I who is mad! It is I who is crazy!" -- Ren Hoek

Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33461
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1717 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Grammatron » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:32 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:53 am
No doubt some farmers are hurt.

The other thing is, let's say for the sake of argument that we give the farmers all the water they are asking for.

Does that prevent the sort of wildfires that are currently causing so much damage?
Prevent? Unlikely. Lessen the damage? Maybe.

User avatar
Witness
Posts: 16448
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm
Has thanked: 1993 times
Been thanked: 2727 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Witness » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:18 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:58 am
Personally I would like to keep the salmon and the rivers in (as much as possible) their natural state.
Salmons are a good example as they are an important part of the food chain (e. g. we've all seen videos of bear gorging on migrating salmons). That's the problem of ecological impact: everything is linked (+ law of unintended consequences), sometimes far away – and so "invisible" –, and we're not very good at that kind of thinking.

And we're not very good at long timescales (+ greed wants its reward fast).

Note that I understand a dude hacking down the Amazonian forest if he has no other way of making a living, or eating the last dodo if he's famished. Which is to say that just decreeing "hands off" isn't a solution, nor just "go for it".

User avatar
sparks
Posts: 13999
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!
Has thanked: 1915 times
Been thanked: 593 times

Re: Diversion

Post by sparks » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:49 am

We all know the outcome here: Humans will continue to suck up resources at an increasing rate until there is nothing left to consume. Then we die, the end.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33461
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1717 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Grammatron » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:47 am

sparks wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:49 am
We all know the outcome here: Humans will continue to suck up resources at an increasing rate until there is nothing left to consume. Then we die, the end.
We do all know the outcome and it's entropy.

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 67516
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3386 times
Been thanked: 2149 times

Re: Diversion

Post by Doctor X » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:10 am

Grammatron wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:47 am
sparks wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:49 am
We all know the outcome here: Humans will continue to suck up resources at an increasing rate until there is nothing left to consume. Then we die, the end.
We do all know the outcome and it's Doctor X, the Humble Yet MagNIfIcent, who takes All Our Moms stereos.
--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!
AL Champions!!!