My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

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My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:55 pm

The Republicans aren't lying exactly when they say we can't afford it.

They are assuming it's a law of nature for the USA to be policeman of the world,
and really there is no way we can afford both.

OTOH, the Democrats ARE lying when they say we CAN afford it.

Because they are assuming it's a law of nature for the USA to be policeman of the world.
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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Giz » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:05 pm

The big unknown is: if we stop being World Cop, do we save money?

I mean, obviously we save money for a couple of years. But what happens when a major war (including nukes?) Kicks off somewhere. Do we get involved and spend loads inefficiently rearming? Is there a huge cost to the world economy that causes a recession here? What about lives lost or pollution? Crop failures from dust clouds?

Just spit balling but I have no idea if we would actually save money on a 10 or 20 year horizon.

What the rest of the world should do is pay us for providing Team America World Police.

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Doctor X » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:18 pm

That will not work because the rest of the world is a bunch of pussies with a few assholes.

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:21 pm

Can we protect ourselves without soldiers in every continent and absurd war aims like making Afghans into little Americans or making Germany pay for NATO?

I'm no pacifist, and I believe the answer is yes.
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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:21 pm

My observation is that bureaucratic nightmare that is state-by-state (and the networks within) healthcare is always going to end in a problem. If the whole country was in one risk pool the costs should be far more reasonable.
Giz wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:05 pm
What the rest of the world should do is pay us for providing Team America World Police.
That's what Trump is demanding.

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Giz » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:24 pm

I thought trump was asking france and Germany (AND ITALY!) to re-arm? (I.e. spend 2% of gdp on their own militaries. Not give us 2%).

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:26 pm

Giz wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:24 pm
I thought trump was asking france and Germany (AND ITALY!) to re-arm? (I.e. spend 2% of gdp on their own militaries. Not give us 2%).
If they spend the money we can scale down our resources there.

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Giz » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:43 pm

I don't think we can trust them to stand up when we need them to. (I.e. Germany depends on Russia for energy. Is Merkel going to get too aggro on putin? No way)

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:55 pm

Giz wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:43 pm
I don't think we can trust them to stand up when we need them to. (I.e. Germany depends on Russia for energy. Is Merkel going to get too aggro on putin? No way)
That's really the point that should be hammered in any Russian conversation. Germany can cut off Russia's pipeline (albeit at a significant economic cost) and demand whatever it wants from Russia, and Russia would have little choice but to acquiesce or sell itself off to China. I would even be up for supporting Germany/EU economically through all that. Instead it's somehow up to USA and NATO.

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:00 pm

In my opinion, NATO should have ceased to exist within a few years of the fall of the Soviet Union.

Since then is has made the world less peaceful.
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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Giz » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:16 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:00 pm
In my opinion, NATO should have ceased to exist within a few years of the fall of the Soviet Union.

Since then is has made the world less peaceful.
Bit tough on the poles, Czechs, Baltic etc. And then on those who border them.

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:23 pm

Giz wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:16 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:00 pm
In my opinion, NATO should have ceased to exist within a few years of the fall of the Soviet Union.

Since then is has made the world less peaceful.
Bit tough on the poles, Czechs, Baltic etc. And then on those who border them.
They are part of the EU, will EU not defend them?

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Doctor X » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:04 pm

BWA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA! Oh wait, is that a serious question?

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
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"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Giz » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:15 pm

Just what the poles want to hear: "the red army is advancing and the Germans are right behind you"

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:26 pm

Then maybe they should join a different union

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Giz » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:31 pm

Well, if the other eloi won't defend you, you could go and join the morlocks. Problem is, it sucks being a morlock.

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:36 pm

If EU has no interest in defense of its members why should US?

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Giz » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:41 pm

The EU is a club for being all post-national and cool.

NATO is a club to fend off bullies.

It's like asking why join a cycling club when you are already in a fishing club. Isn't being in a club enough?

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:47 pm

No I get why Poland and Czechs want NATO, I am asking what is the benefit for USA?

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Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Giz » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:52 pm

Keeps the lid on things. No major wars break out. No major disruption to international trade.

And a helping of noblesse oblige from Washington aristocrats