My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 67648
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3426 times
Been thanked: 2173 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Doctor X » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:26 pm

We might actually care if the Russians take away our French wine.

The Ruskies don't drink water . . . vodka . . . they drink vodka . . .

--J. "Our Precious Fluids!" D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33584
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1747 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:44 pm

California wine is on par

User avatar
Giz
Posts: 1264
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 163 times
Been thanked: 273 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Giz » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:55 pm

We can find american substitutes for most European products. Wine from California. Beer from Michigan. Water from Detroit.

Some guy in 1938:
"How horrible, how fantastic, how incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas masks here because of a quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing."

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13999
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 348 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by WildCat » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:42 pm

We already spend nearly twice as much on Medicare and Medicaid as we do on defense. Include private spending and the USA spends $3.3 trillion on health care, over 5 times as much as we spend on defense.

IOW cut defense spending to $0 and we expand government health care by just 50% and aren't even in the ballpark of "Medicaid for all".
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 21741
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1410 times
Been thanked: 1232 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:19 am

Grammatron wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:47 pm
No I get why Poland and Czechs want NATO, I am asking what is the benefit for USA?
Originally to prevent World War 3.

The thinking is that, if there were a major war in Europe again, we would end up getting dragged into it anyway, just like the last two times. It's the old "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" idea.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Witness
Posts: 16836
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm
Has thanked: 2053 times
Been thanked: 2817 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Witness » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:29 am

↑ Also as a buffer zone around Godless Commies™ and their ideas.

User avatar
shemp
Posts: 5152
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:16 pm
Title: gnat
Has thanked: 650 times
Been thanked: 461 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by shemp » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:31 am

Nobody gives a fuck what any of us think. The only people who matter are the ones getting rich off of the status quo.
"It is not I who is mad! It is I who is crazy!" -- Ren Hoek

Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22189
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 402 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by gnome » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:54 am

How many here are aware that there is a competitive element to Medicare that (in theory) places pressure to lower prices and increase quality?

Whether it is working is not something I am prepared with enough information to answer. But I found it interesting when I learned it was there.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 71412
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3321 times
Been thanked: 1227 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:19 pm

How to pay for "Medicare for all"?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was asked this recently and had an answer.

No fumbling around either. Remarkably forthright for a politician.
Just pay for it.
Evidences

Thank you for clearing that up. 8)
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
corplinx
Posts: 20242
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 am
Title: Moderator
Has thanked: 226 times
Been thanked: 679 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by corplinx » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:24 pm

Donald Trump should introduce a public option and watch heads melt.

Then he can take credit for doing more for the poors than Obama and neuter probably the best Dem issue going into 2020.

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22189
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 402 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by gnome » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:08 pm

If he did that, I might even consider voting for him. No lie.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33584
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1747 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Grammatron » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:19 pm

gnome wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:08 pm
If he did that, I might even consider voting for him. No lie.
I can't believe gnome would consider becoming a white supremacist just like that.

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13999
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 348 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by WildCat » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:29 pm

The people who cite lower costs in other countries as evidence that "medicare for all" would be cheaper ignore some huge differences between us and them.
1. US healthcare workers make 50%-300% more than they do in those other countries. How do you force them to take a pay cut to pay for it?
2. We have more of them per capita than other countries. Who's going to lose their jobs to help pay for it?
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Giz
Posts: 1264
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 163 times
Been thanked: 273 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by Giz » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:57 pm

What I've seen ascribed as the main factor in divergent costs , is the utilization /waiting times.

I.e. the NHS runs close to capacity ( hospital beds, MRI machines etc) , resulting in better cost per capita. But backlogs easily (inevitably ) result. And people wait ashes for operations.

The American system is relatively over resourced (say running at 50% capacity) which is pricy, but means you get your procedure Pronto .

It's a case of, no such thing as a free lunch.

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22189
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 375 times
Been thanked: 402 times

Re: My observations on "Medicare for all" (USA politics)

Post by gnome » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:01 am

You could, theoretically, do a decent comparison of backlogs if you consider people priced out as a persistent backlog. I wonder how it would compare then?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2