Secrecy and Classification

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
ed
Posts: 33044
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 439 times
Been thanked: 754 times

Secrecy and Classification

Post by ed » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:42 am

So now the TrumpMeister has ordered documents released that were hitherto classified.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/17/us/p ... e=Homepage

The question is, why was it classified in the first place. That is sorta the meta issue for me.
Much of the application was previously released in July, angering the intelligence community and members of the law enforcement who believed that the information should not have been made public and that its release set a dangerous precedent by making public secret methods of investigation.
OK, so show me the stuff that should have been kept secret: convince me.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13852
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 332 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by WildCat » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:48 am

It's secret because it embarrasses them and exposes their illegal spying.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33044
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 439 times
Been thanked: 754 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by ed » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:52 am

OK, fair enough.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13852
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 332 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by WildCat » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:43 pm

If Sessions refuses to declassify it gives Trump a valid reason to fire him.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33044
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 439 times
Been thanked: 754 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by ed » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:08 pm

I want to see the things that cause things to be kept from us.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 25880
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6
Has thanked: 2714 times
Been thanked: 2767 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Pyrrho » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:09 pm

Nothing should be classified if it can be used against your political opponents. Otherwise it should be kept secret unless it can be sold for a good profit.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
xouper
Posts: 8756
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:52 am
Location: HockeyTown USA
Has thanked: 217 times
Been thanked: 134 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by xouper » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:46 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:09 pm
Nothing should be classified if it can be used against your political opponents. Otherwise it should be kept secret unless it can be sold for a good profit.
That's an excellent non-partisan observation. :bigthumb:

Except perhaps you might want to (just maybe) post that kind of thing using your other sock puppet, Antisthenes (the Cynic). :wink:

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 25880
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6
Has thanked: 2714 times
Been thanked: 2767 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:47 am

Apemantus, more likely. Or Timon of Athens.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
Witness
Posts: 16464
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm
Has thanked: 1995 times
Been thanked: 2727 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Witness » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:05 am

Image

User avatar
corplinx
Posts: 20025
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 am
Title: Moderator
Has thanked: 210 times
Been thanked: 657 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by corplinx » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:06 am

The information would support the conspiracy theory that the Mueller investigation is based on no actual crime. Or the conspiracy theory that the Feds were spying on Trump.

The only conspiracy theory I think Trump has been wrong so far on was the Kenyan birth certificate, so now I'm starting to have my doubts on that too.

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 67537
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3391 times
Been thanked: 2154 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Doctor X » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:32 am

He was still wrong about the USFL, corps.

:freedom:

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!
AL Champions!!!

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 21484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 1394 times
Been thanked: 1181 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:52 am

corplinx wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:06 am
The only conspiracy theory I think Trump has been wrong so far on was the Kenyan birth certificate, so now I'm starting to have my doubts on that too.
So he was right about Ted Cruz's father and Lee Harvey Oswald? :roll:

Or that Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower?

Or that he won the "popular vote" because millions of illegals voted for Hillary?

The insinuation that Joe Scarborough killed one of his interns?

Yeah, sure. :roll:
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 67537
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3391 times
Been thanked: 2154 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Doctor X » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:04 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:52 am
So he was right about Ted Cruz's father and Lee Harvey Oswald? :roll:
WERE YOU THERE?
Or that Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower?
He totes did.
Or that he won the "popular vote" because millions of illegals voted for Hillary?
You think the illegals voted for Trump?
The insinuation that Joe Scarborough killed one of his interns?
Do you have evidences that he did not?!

:freedom: dies in silence, Anax.

Let me guess, you still buy take-out pizza. . . .

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!
AL Champions!!!

User avatar
corplinx
Posts: 20025
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 am
Title: Moderator
Has thanked: 210 times
Been thanked: 657 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by corplinx » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:35 am

Man, Anax got totally triggered by my birther joke.

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 13852
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 332 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by WildCat » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:01 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:52 am
corplinx wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:06 am
The only conspiracy theory I think Trump has been wrong so far on was the Kenyan birth certificate, so now I'm starting to have my doubts on that too.
So he was right about Ted Cruz's father and Lee Harvey Oswald? :roll:

Or that Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower?

Or that he won the "popular vote" because millions of illegals voted for Hillary?

The insinuation that Joe Scarborough killed one of his interns?

Yeah, sure. :roll:
How about the Obama administration manufactured reasons to spy on the Trump campaign in an effort to prevent him from getting elected and failing to stop that sabotage his Presidency?
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 67537
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3391 times
Been thanked: 2154 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Doctor X » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:36 am

And where is the evidences--thanks--that Obama was not involved in the JFK assassination?

He cannot even prove when and where he was born!

#Truth!

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!
AL Champions!!!

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33044
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 439 times
Been thanked: 754 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by ed » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:41 am

WildCat wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:01 am
Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:52 am
corplinx wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:06 am
The only conspiracy theory I think Trump has been wrong so far on was the Kenyan birth certificate, so now I'm starting to have my doubts on that too.
So he was right about Ted Cruz's father and Lee Harvey Oswald? :roll:

Or that Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower?

Or that he won the "popular vote" because millions of illegals voted for Hillary?

The insinuation that Joe Scarborough killed one of his interns?

Yeah, sure. :roll:
How about the Obama administration manufactured reasons to spy on the Trump campaign in an effort to prevent him from getting elected and failing to stop that sabotage his Presidency?
It is incontrovertible that the Obama admin did spy on the Trump campaign and that they used the bogus FISA court to give themselves a legal fig leaf. The only question is whether the "evidence" that they used to support the warrant was solely the bullshit limey file financed by Hillary.

If that is the case, Trump was right.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70817
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3172 times
Been thanked: 1175 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:29 pm

corplinx wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:06 am
The only conspiracy theory I think Trump has been wrong so far on was the Kenyan birth certificate, so now I'm starting to have my doubts on that too.
Trump was never "wrong" about that one, he was lying.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70817
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3172 times
Been thanked: 1175 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:31 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:52 am
corplinx wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:06 am
The only conspiracy theory I think Trump has been wrong so far on was the Kenyan birth certificate, so now I'm starting to have my doubts on that too.
So he was right about Ted Cruz's father and Lee Harvey Oswald? :roll:

...

Or that he won the "popular vote" because millions of illegals voted for Hillary?

The insinuation that Joe Scarborough killed one of his interns?

Yeah, sure. :roll:
He was wrong about all sorts of things, but none of those are conspiracy theories.

Or that Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower?
And right about this one, even if the O man didn't order it directly.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22075
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 362 times
Been thanked: 393 times

Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by gnome » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:17 pm

Is there (in place) a remedy to the dilemma that the president in power can declassify documents that harm his political opponents but can refuse to do so for information they could use to defend themselves?

Not too familiar with how all that works. I hope it isn't "suck it up, get your guy in office next time"
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2