Secrecy and Classification

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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WildCat
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by WildCat » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:22 pm

gnome wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:17 pm
Is there (in place) a remedy to the dilemma that the president in power can declassify documents that harm his political opponents but can refuse to do so for information they could use to defend themselves?

Not too familiar with how all that works. I hope it isn't "suck it up, get your guy in office next time"
What does this have to do with the current situation?
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:23 pm

The Democrats' position is that intelligence agencies are currently the legitimate government and the president is not.
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by ed » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:47 pm

gnome wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:17 pm
Is there (in place) a remedy to the dilemma that the president in power can declassify documents that harm his political opponents but can refuse to do so for information they could use to defend themselves?

Not too familiar with how all that works. I hope it isn't "suck it up, get your guy in office next time"
That is precisely what Obama's hoodlums did, right? Selective leaks, phony FISA warrant, spying etc etc. And all the while doing a softball investigation into Clinton's shenanigans with her server.
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by ed » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:48 pm

You know, I was never a Trump fan, and remember I knew of him from ages ago in NYC, but this crap is making me take his side more and more.
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by corplinx » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:43 pm

"Suck it up at all the corruption being revealed"

McCabe: fired in shame, facing charges
Stroz: fired in shame
Comey: fired in shame
Mueller: hopefully fired soon

Anti-Trumpers have become pro-corruption since they think the end justifies the means.

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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by WildCat » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:05 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:52 am
corplinx wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:06 am
The only conspiracy theory I think Trump has been wrong so far on was the Kenyan birth certificate, so now I'm starting to have my doubts on that too.
So he was right about Ted Cruz's father and Lee Harvey Oswald? :roll:

Or that Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower?

Or that he won the "popular vote" because millions of illegals voted for Hillary?

The insinuation that Joe Scarborough killed one of his interns?

Yeah, sure. :roll:
He was certainly right about the Deep State.

Comey has been laying low lately, I wonder why?
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by gnome » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:33 pm

WildCat wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:22 pm
gnome wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:17 pm
Is there (in place) a remedy to the dilemma that the president in power can declassify documents that harm his political opponents but can refuse to do so for information they could use to defend themselves?

Not too familiar with how all that works. I hope it isn't "suck it up, get your guy in office next time"
What does this have to do with the current situation?
Maybe nothing. But if it did, would we have any way of finding out?
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Witness » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:37 pm

ed wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:48 pm
You know, I was never a Trump fan, and remember I knew of him from ages ago in NYC, but this crap is making me take his side more and more.
It all started when the only choice was him or Her Turn™. Now with a topping of bad losers and a yearning for revenge after the unspeakable lese-majesty.

At least that's how I see it from very far away… :mrgreen:

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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by gnome » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:43 pm

If assholes hate an asshole, it doesn't make the asshole a better person. He was the same guy as before.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by xouper » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:04 am

gnome wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:43 pm
If assholes hate an asshole, it doesn't make the asshole a better person. He was the same guy as before.
Your observation is not relevant when the decision is which side to take.

When deciding which side to take, I would choose the lesser of two weevils.

And thus when the asshole haters of an asshole become a greater weevil than the asshole, it becomes obvious which side to take. Even though the asshole is still the same guy as before.

:)

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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by ed » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:30 am

xouper wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:04 am
gnome wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:43 pm
If assholes hate an asshole, it doesn't make the asshole a better person. He was the same guy as before.
Your observation is not relevant when the decision is which side to take.

When deciding which side to take, I would choose the lesser of two weevils.

And thus when the asshole haters of an asshole become a greater weevil than the asshole, it becomes obvious which side to take. Even though the asshole is still the same guy as before.

:)
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by xouper » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:03 am

ed wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:30 am
That sorta sums it up. <you can't get away from Master and Commander, can you?>
Image

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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:57 am

Here is the issue:

When it comes to state secrets does the CIA outrank the president?

Yes or no?
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by xouper » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:16 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:57 am
Here is the issue:

When it comes to state secrets does the CIA outrank the president?

Yes or no?
No. Anyone who refuses a presidential order to declassify is guilty of insubordination.

However, I am not qualified to give a legal opinion on that.

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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by ed » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:12 pm

ed wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:42 am
So now the TrumpMeister has ordered documents released that were hitherto classified.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/17/us/p ... e=Homepage

The question is, why was it classified in the first place. That is sorta the meta issue for me.
Much of the application was previously released in July, angering the intelligence community and members of the law enforcement who believed that the information should not have been made public and that its release set a dangerous precedent by making public secret methods of investigation.
OK, so show me the stuff that should have been kept secret: convince me.
So where the fuck are they?????????
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Grammatron » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:08 pm

ed wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:12 pm
So where the fuck are they?????????
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1M11ZR
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday said documents from the federal Russia probe would not immediately be released, just days after he ordered them to be made public, citing concerns by the U.S. Justice Department that doing so could harm the investigation.

Trump, on Twitter, said the department’s inspector general would review the documents “on an expedited basis” and would “move quickly.”

“In the end I can always declassify if it proves necessary,” Trump wrote, after earlier demanding the release of documents in the ongoing investigation of alleged Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by ed » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:11 pm

Deep State takes care of it's own.
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:24 am

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/21/poli ... index.html
On Thursday evening, Trump signaled that he might be shifting from the declassification demand when he told Fox News' Sean Hannity he had received phone calls from two unnamed "very good allies" who raised objections to releasing the documents publicly.
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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by Doctor X » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:43 am

No way to evaluate that. According to a senator on the Intelligence Committee who saw them, there is no such reason for objection. That and 2¢ will get you Gram's Mom.

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Re: Secrecy and Classification

Post by ed » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:29 am

So where are they?
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