Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Doctor X » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:36 pm

This seems appropriate:



Buh bye, Ford. Return to the obscurity you deserve. Next time, use a psychiatrist and not a quack who implants memories.

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by sparks » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:48 am

How do you know the memories are 'implanted' Doc?

BTW--That is a terrible thing to do to an RCA 77 ribbon mic!!!
Last edited by sparks on Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Doctor X » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:52 am

Because of the evidence posted and linked, which you know assuming you read it or clicked on a link, along with the therapy she received, in which she "recovered" the memories relatively recently. Recovered memories are implanted by the therapist.

It is not terribly complicated.

Unless you prefer the explanation that she has been lying continuously. That is the other possibility.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by sparks » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:55 am

My mistake. I'm not aware that she ever said she'd 'recovered' these memories. But if that's the case, then they are almost certainly garbage.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Doctor X » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:05 am

She had no memory until she went to a therapist. Mitchell's report is a nice summary of all of the problems with her story.

Add in the incentive of secondary gain posted by others, and she sinks even further.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Doctor X » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:59 am

From Rachel Mitchell's Memorandum
In the legal context, here is my bottom line: A “he said, she said” case is incredibly difficult to prove. But this case is even weaker than that. Dr. Ford identified other witnesses to the event, and those witnesses either refuted her allegations or failed to corroborate them. For the reasons discussed below, I do not think that a reasonable prosecutor would bring this case based on the evidence before the Committee. Nor do I believe that this evidence is sufficient to satisfy the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard.

Dr. Ford has not offered a consistent account of when the alleged assault happened.
  • •In a July 6 text to the Washington Post, she said it happened in the “mid 1980s.”
    •In her July 30 letter to Senator Feinstein, she said it happened in the “early 80s.”
    •Her August 7 statement to the polygrapher said that it happened one “high school summer in early 80’s,” but she crossed out the word “early” for reasons she did not explain.
    •A September 16 Washington Post article reported that Dr. Ford said it happened in the “summer of 1982.”
    •Similarly, the September 16 article reported that notes from an individual therapy session in 2013 show her describing the assault as occurring in her “late teens.” But she told the Post and the Committee that she was 15 when the assault allegedly occurred. She has not turned over her therapy records for the Committee to review.
    •While it is common for victims to be uncertain about dates, Dr. Ford failed to explain how she was suddenly able to narrow the timeframe to a particular season and particular year.

Dr. Ford has struggled to identify Judge Kavanaugh as the assailant by name.
  • No name was given in her 2012 marriage therapy notes. Critical
    •No name was given in her 2013 individual therapy notes.
    •Dr. Ford’s husband claims to recall that she identified Judge Kavanaugh by name in 2012. At that point, Judge Kavanaugh’s name was widely reported in the press as a potential Supreme Court nominee if Governor Romney won the presidential election.
    In any event, it took Dr. Ford over thirty years to name her assailant. Delayed disclosure of abuse is common so this is not dispositive.
When speaking with her husband, Dr. Ford changed her description of the incident to become less specific.
  • •Dr. Ford testified that she told her husband about a “sexual assault” before they were married.
    •But she told the Washington Post that she informed her husband that she was the victim of “physical abuse” at the beginning of their marriage.
    •She testified that, both times, she was referring to the same incident.
Dr. Ford has no memory of key details of the night in question—details that could help corroborate her account.
  • She does not remember who invited her to the party or how she heard about it.
    •She does not remember how she got to the party.
    •She does not remember in what house the assault allegedly took place or where that house was located with any specificity.
    •Perhaps most importantly, she does not remember how she got from the party back to her house.
And it continues. Worth the read particularly on how, magically, she suddenly "remembers" it was Kavanaugh. Memory does not work that way.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by WildCat » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:05 am

Kagan admits she and others are leftist partisans:
Associate Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan said Friday she fears the high court may lack a justice going forward who would serve as a swing-vote on cases, speaking hours after President Trump's second nominee Brett Kavanaugh secured enough votes to be confirmed.

Kagan said at a conference for women at Princeton University that over the past three decades, starting with Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and continuing with Justice Anthony Kennedy, that there was a figure on the bench "who found the center or people couldn't predict in that sort of way."

“It’s not so clear, that I think going forward, that sort of middle position — it's not so clear whether we’ll have it," Kagan said.

"All of us need to be aware of that — every single one of us — and to realize how precious the court’s legitimacy is," she added. "It's an incredibly important thing for the court to guard is this reputation of being impartial, being neutral and not being simply extension of a terribly polarizing process."
Of course, she has no intention of being that "middle position". It's a fascinating admission of what she thinks the SCOTUS should be, and it's not as an impartial body interpreting laws and the Constitution.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by shuize » Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:24 am

WildCat wrote: Of course, she has no intention of being that "middle position". It's a fascinating admission of what she thinks the SCOTUS should be, and it's not as an impartial body interpreting laws and the Constitution.
I’ve noticed that, too. Conservatives are somehow expected to “moderate” their positions to move closer to the center ... and that’s all. It reminds me of my ex-wife, for whom “compromise” only ever seemed to work in one direction.

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Doctor X » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:20 am

shuize wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:24 am
It reminds me of my ex-wife, for whom “compromise” only ever seemed to work in one direction.
You did not understand that it was Her Turn.

I will pray for you.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by shuize » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:33 am

Doctor X wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:20 am
shuize wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:24 am
It reminds me of my ex-wife, for whom “compromise” only ever seemed to work in one direction.
You did not understand that it was Her Turn.

I will pray for you.

--J.D.
Yes, it was always Her Turn, too.

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by xouper » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:53 am

RCC: Act II wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:16 pm
. . . Besides, whether or not he did anything is besides the point. The moment he claimed he was not capable of sexual assault because he was a virgin he exposed himself as not being fit to be a judge at all, much less on the SCOTUS. Add that to the various petty lies he's spun about his drinking, his contacts with the judge he clerked for, and who knows what else from all the stuff being withheld, and it suggests one question:

Is the best guy out of of all the federalist society dipshits available? Really? This guy? Like they can't find some other half-witted Scalia fetishist with a law degree from an elite school to champion their delusional originalist bullshit? The last fedbot got through well enough, just ship this one back to the circuit court and find another.
RCC: Act II wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:46 pm
. . . We learn a lot about people when they think they are being treated unfairly. We now know that this person becomes combative, angry, shows poor composure, and will tell petty lies to protect his interests. That should be the end of it. I can't imagine anyone acting the way he did with his testimony and being hired as a paralegal, much less a judge. . . .
Let's be clear about this:

Are you, a criminal defense attorney, accusing Judge Brett Kavanaugh of felony perjury?

Also please explain why you should not be reported to the Bar for possible violation of Rule 8.2?

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:12 am

xouper wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:53 am
RCC: Act II wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:16 pm
. . . Besides, whether or not he did anything is besides the point. The moment he claimed he was not capable of sexual assault because he was a virgin he exposed himself as not being fit to be a judge at all, much less on the SCOTUS. Add that to the various petty lies he's spun about his drinking, his contacts with the judge he clerked for, and who knows what else from all the stuff being withheld, and it suggests one question:

Is the best guy out of of all the federalist society dipshits available? Really? This guy? Like they can't find some other half-witted Scalia fetishist with a law degree from an elite school to champion their delusional originalist bullshit? The last fedbot got through well enough, just ship this one back to the circuit court and find another.
RCC: Act II wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:46 pm
. . . We learn a lot about people when they think they are being treated unfairly. We now know that this person becomes combative, angry, shows poor composure, and will tell petty lies to protect his interests. That should be the end of it. I can't imagine anyone acting the way he did with his testimony and being hired as a paralegal, much less a judge. . . .
Let's be clear about this:

Are you, a criminal defense attorney, accusing Judge Brett Kavanaugh of felony perjury?

Also please explain why you should not be reported to the Bar for possible violation of Rule 8.2?
Uh-oh. You gonna tell a moderator?

Some of the things he said do seem highly dubious. The meaning of "Devil's Triangle" for one thing. I think "boof" might have been another. Nobody seems to have heard of a drinking game called "Devil's Triangle" but it has been used to mean a threesome.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/598k ... view-vgtrn
A quick look at Urban Dictionary will tell you that "boofing" is a euphemism for anal sex, and a Devil's Triangle is, as we all suspected, a threesome—specifically, to cite the definition, between one woman and two dudes where it's "important" not to "make eye contact." Somehow Kavanaugh apparently figured he'd pass them off as something else, under oath, despite Google search results pointing to something else entirely.
Personally, I've never heard either of these terms, but nobody can seem to find a reference prior to Kavanauh's testimony that corroborates these definitions. But there are prior references to the threesome and anal sex definitions.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by ed » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:17 am

sparks wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:48 am
How do you know the memories are 'implanted' Doc?

BTW--That is a terrible thing to do to an RCA 77 ribbon mic!!!
Doc had done a nice disassembly somewhere. But the point, and correct me if I am wrong, Doc, is that implanted memories are, for all intents and purposes, lies. When one lies one does not have the facts of events and circumstances around the event that is lied about at hand.

When one lies there is no believable context. When asked the color of the car used in the abduction, since there was no abduction, it has to be made up. The make and model too. And since it is all made up the lier has a shitload to remember.

If one were telling the truth one could rely on real memories. If I ask you where you went on your honeymoon, you'd remember instantly. If I asked whether you were on a high or low floor in the hotel, you'd know. You'd know if you left right after the wedding or the next day and if it were the next day you'd know where you stayed and how you got there and how you got to the airport. And you would, importantly, say the same thing on different occasions.

All those associated facts would have to be made up with implanted memories and they would vary. It is very very hard to lie and create the fabric that makes the lie seem authentic. I think that is fairly accurate, Doc?

Given all that, reread the Mitchell document with the assumption that the core memory (sexual assault w/Kavenaugh) was implanted:
In the legal context, here is my bottom line: A “he said, she said” case is incredibly difficult to prove. But this case is even weaker than that. Dr. Ford identified other witnesses to the event, and those witnesses either refuted her allegations or failed to corroborate them. For the reasons discussed below, I do not think that a reasonable prosecutor would bring this case based on the evidence before the Committee. Nor do I believe that this evidence is sufficient to satisfy the preponderance-of-the-evidence standard.

Dr. Ford has not offered a consistent account of when the alleged assault happened.
•In a July 6 text to the Washington Post, she said it happened in the “mid 1980s.”
•In her July 30 letter to Senator Feinstein, she said it happened in the “early 80s.”
•Her August 7 statement to the polygrapher said that it happened one “high school summer in early 80’s,” but she crossed out the word “early” for reasons she did not explain.
•A September 16 Washington Post article reported that Dr. Ford said it happened in the “summer of 1982.”
•Similarly, the September 16 article reported that notes from an individual therapy session in 2013 show her describing the assault as occurring in her “late teens.” But she told the Post and the Committee that she was 15 when the assault allegedly occurred. She has not turned over her therapy records for the Committee to review.
•While it is common for victims to be uncertain about dates, Dr. Ford failed to explain how she was suddenly able to narrow the timeframe to a particular season and particular year.

Dr. Ford has struggled to identify Judge Kavanaugh as the assailant by name.
•No name was given in her 2012 marriage therapy notes. Critical
•No name was given in her 2013 individual therapy notes.
•Dr. Ford’s husband claims to recall that she identified Judge Kavanaugh by name in 2012. At that point, Judge Kavanaugh’s name was widely reported in the press as a potential Supreme Court nominee if Governor Romney won the presidential election.
•In any event, it took Dr. Ford over thirty years to name her assailant. Delayed disclosure of abuse is common so this is not dispositive.
When speaking with her husband, Dr. Ford changed her description of the incident to become less specific.
•Dr. Ford testified that she told her husband about a “sexual assault” before they were married.
•But she told the Washington Post that she informed her husband that she was the victim of “physical abuse” at the beginning of their marriage.
•She testified that, both times, she was referring to the same incident.
Dr. Ford has no memory of key details of the night in question—details that could help corroborate her account.
•She does not remember who invited her to the party or how she heard about it.
•She does not remember how she got to the party.
•She does not remember in what house the assault allegedly took place or where that house was located with any specificity.
•Perhaps most importantly, she does not remember how she got from the party back to her house.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by xouper » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:44 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:12 am
Some of the things he said do seem highly dubious. The meaning of "Devil's Triangle" for one thing. I think "boof" might have been another. Nobody seems to have heard of a drinking game called "Devil's Triangle" but it has been used to mean a threesome.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/598k ... view-vgtrn
A quick look at Urban Dictionary will tell you that "boofing" is a euphemism for anal sex, and a Devil's Triangle is, as we all suspected, a threesome—specifically, to cite the definition, between one woman and two dudes where it's "important" not to "make eye contact." Somehow Kavanaugh apparently figured he'd pass them off as something else, under oath, despite Google search results pointing to something else entirely.
Personally, I've never heard either of these terms, but nobody can seem to find a reference prior to Kavanauh's testimony that corroborates these definitions. But there are prior references to the threesome and anal sex definitions.
Actually, there is corroboration for Kavanaugh's definitions.

See for example:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/04/politics ... index.html

More here:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=devil%27s+tri ... nking+game

Many slang terms have more than one meaning, especially among teenagers. Including the two terms you mentioned.

Secondly, just because someone has not heard of the definitions alleged by Judge Kavanaugh is not a valid argument that Kavanaugh lied. Be careful not to invoke the fallacy called argumentum ad ignorantiam.

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by WildCat » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:59 am

Slang is constantly changing and can vary wildly from place to place especially in pre-internet days. In high school my circle of friends had our own unique slang not replicated anywhere else, it's absurd for people to claim in 2018 that they know what his terms meant in 1982.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Skeeve » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm

WildCat wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:59 am
Slang is constantly changing and can vary wildly from place to place especially in pre-internet days. In high school my circle of friends had our own unique slang not replicated anywhere else, it's absurd for people to claim in 2018 that they know what his terms meant in 1982.
That is SO true!

Meanwhile: Murkowski to vote 'present' on Kavanaugh so Daines won't have to leave daughter's wedding

A bit of drama in the wings as it were. For what ever reason, they chose to schedule this vote on a day when one of the Republican senators has a prior committment.

But Wait!
Just in case: GOP congressman offers plane so Sen. Daines can attend daughter's wedding and still vote for Kavanaugh

Guess the democrats are not the only folks that deal in drama...
:Popcorn:
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:49 pm

CNN says so, so now it's official. :notsure:

Brett Kavanaugh confirmed to Supreme Court (CNN)
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by corplinx » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:59 pm

recap: uncontroversial supreme court pick made into circus by people fomenting violence and pushing deranged nutjobs towards action

Shame on the Democrats for being the most toxic thing since ... Donald Trump.

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Skeeve » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by corplinx » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:07 pm

Image

The cool kids are mining salt while the butthurt remnant is crying into their soy milk.