Post Kavanaugh vote thread

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corplinx
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by corplinx » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:14 pm

missing blonde haired attractive/thin girl in your town. ALERT ALERT ALERT

black kid gets shot by a cop, "thug put down today, film at 11"

Black Lives Matter acknowledges disparity in how black people feel they are treated whether their perceptions are correct or not.

Saying All Lives Matter glosses over the fact that blacks feel like an underclass. "yes all lives matter but can you acknowledge us at least?"

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Grammatron » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:54 pm

corplinx wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:14 pm
missing blonde haired attractive/thin girl in your town. ALERT ALERT ALERT

black kid gets shot by a cop, "thug put down today, film at 11"

Black Lives Matter acknowledges disparity in how black people feel they are treated whether their perceptions are correct or not.

Saying All Lives Matter glosses over the fact that blacks feel like an underclass. "yes all lives matter but can you acknowledge us at least?"
I get your point, but if the issue in this country is shitty police then stopping them from killing one subset of population is not really fixing the problem.

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by corplinx » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:14 pm

My point was only to explain to Ed what the POV is and not actually justify it myself.

Nobody tries to put themselves in other people's shoes anymore. They just preach at each other.

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by WildCat » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:23 pm

corplinx wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:14 pm
My point was only to explain to Ed what the POV is and not actually justify it myself.

Nobody tries to put themselves in other people's shoes anymore. They just preach at each other.
I think if the issue is shitty police and it instead gets turned into a racial issue then the actual problem of shitty police never gets solved.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Grammatron » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:25 pm

corplinx wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:14 pm
My point was only to explain to Ed what the POV is and not actually justify it myself.

Nobody tries to put themselves in other people's shoes anymore. They just preach at each other.
I don't think empathy is dead. People tripping over themselves to empathize with other through social media. Unfortunately there are layers of bullshit, deceit, and projection going on to subvert everything into a tool of someone's agenda.

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by ed » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:38 pm

corplinx wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:14 pm
My point was only to explain to Ed what the POV is and not actually justify it myself.

Nobody tries to put themselves in other people's shoes anymore. They just preach at each other.
As I watch all the bullshit swirling around me, I am more and more convinced that one must discover and adhere to first principles.

In the current case, the principle is that minions of the government cannot and must not perpetrate murder on citizens with no good reason. Period. It it occurs the malefactor must be brought to account. The fact that that has not been done in the past is what has brought us to the current state. Focusing on BLM simply says that there is a black problem whereas it is a problem with our legal system which is, I submit, far graver than suggested by shouting slogans.

I am well aware of the disparity and, at gun shows, I have discussed the problem with men of color. DWB is a wry joke in such situations.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by ed » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:39 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:25 pm
corplinx wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:14 pm
My point was only to explain to Ed what the POV is and not actually justify it myself.

Nobody tries to put themselves in other people's shoes anymore. They just preach at each other.
I don't think empathy is dead. People tripping over themselves to empathize with other through social media. Unfortunately there are layers of bullshit, deceit, and projection going on to subvert everything into a tool of someone's agenda.
Empathy is bullshit, as are feelings. All that matters is solutions.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Grammatron » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:54 pm

ed wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:39 pm
Grammatron wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:25 pm
corplinx wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:14 pm
My point was only to explain to Ed what the POV is and not actually justify it myself.

Nobody tries to put themselves in other people's shoes anymore. They just preach at each other.
I don't think empathy is dead. People tripping over themselves to empathize with other through social media. Unfortunately there are layers of bullshit, deceit, and projection going on to subvert everything into a tool of someone's agenda.
Empathy is bullshit, as are feelings. All that matters is solutions.
That's not an answer either because you are liable to find yourself in an "ends justify the means" situation.

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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by gnome » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:02 pm

corplinx wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:20 pm
There is a tipping point where it's time to abandon ship on branding. I think it is has passed for this one.

I'm not saying your are wrong, I'm saying that the "real meaning" is so lost that it's no longer worth "being correct".
That may be.

Remaining is the question of how to keep that from happening maliciously, but that could be an age-old question that will never be solved.
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by gnome » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:22 pm

ed wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:45 pm
How in the world can saying that all lives matter (which, btw, includes black lives) be objectionable in any way whatsoever?
That is exactly how some rhetorical techniques work--by appearing on their face to be something innocent, when devoid of context.

I'll give an example.

Back in the 90s there was a civil rights law on the books in the city of Tampa, that prohibited some form of discrimination based on race, sex, religion, and sexual orientation. During one election, there was a voter referendum to change the law to remove sexual orientation from those categories. Did they write, "Shall Tampa's anti-discrimination ordinance be amended to remove sexual orientation?" No, they did not. Without mentioning the existing wording, the measure was just phrased (roughly) to adopt the language of the original law with sexual orientation quietly absent. Who could possibly object to a law that forbids discrimination based on race, sex, and religion? Regardless of whether one thinks the change was a good or bad idea, that was a dishonest approach.

I'm sure there's a simple example, but advocations sometimes simply cannot be evaluated fairly without examining the context in which they appear.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Post Kavanaugh vote thread

Post by Doctor X » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:51 am

gnome wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:56 pm
On the "All Lives Matter" -- I think there IS an objectionable implication. It implies it as a contrary point to "BLM", as if the original slogan was in opposition to the idea that all lives matter, when it was not. A strawman argument by false contrast. I wouldn't throw "racist" around because of it though--people throw straw for all kinds of reasons.
Uh. No.

Though members booing when reminded that all lives do matter is evidences--thanks--you should not ignore.

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