Jamal Khashoggi

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by xouper » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:21 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:32 am
The media don't think anything.
Then why all the media circus about this particular case?

Come on, Abdul. Do you have a coherent case to make, or are you just stringing me along with one liners?

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:33 am

xouper wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:18 am
I am still looking for an explanation why this particular Saudi "incident" is so noteworthy compared to all the other Saudi dissident kidnappings, murders, etc, in recent years. The US has a long history of looking the other way regarding these kinds of things, so what is different about this particular case?
It's in the details. First of all there seems to be more hard evidence in this case proving that he was murdered by Saudi agents. Also it couldn't hurt that he worked for the Washington Post, and apparently he knew a lot of people in Washington.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Doctor X » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:12 am

I make the same complaint whenever I am pulled over for driving while under the influence of an NBL. I demand the officer explain why he picked me out over all of the other Saudi murders, kidnappings, et cetera.

Anyways, Real Clear Politics leans Right but tries to collect opinion articles from Moonbat to PsychoCon. I will not link the PsychoCon "American Greatness" article from Sebastian "Do You Need Your Balls Wet Again, Mr. Trump? Mr. Hannity?" Gorka, but he lists the "why he was not a journalist" reasons. Throughout it, he keeps reminding us, "well, none of this actually justifies dismembering him."

Whatever. The guy may have supported "Radical Islam." Perhaps the FBI was too busy trying to exonerate Her Turn and recreate an overused story from 24--"The cabinet is going to vote on your capacity, Mr. President! DAMN IT!"--to notice he was funneling money, volunteers, hookers, and blow to ISIS or, worse, Detroit.

The point remains that Top Men [Who?--Ed.] Top Men in Saudi Arabia declared that they parked Flounder's brother's car in the back, and when they looked in the morning . . . it was gone!

No, wait, these clowns actually claimed he ducked out the back! Of a consulate. While his fiancee waiting. Because fiancees love it when you ditch them. "Then he . . . went . . . to buy . . . a hat . . . and . . . we're not saying Aliens are involved . . . but it's probably Aliens. Or Jews."

This would be if the Steele Document was All True along with pictures of Trump Sebastian Gorkaing Vlad I.

This would be if Her Turn demanded that the Seal Team 78 [What?--Ed.] stand down and stop protecting Benghazi and Vince Neil Foster.

This would be if Obama was actually born in Cleveland.

This is PSTD Dad walking into you double teaming his daughter, wife, and Gram's mom to which you respond, "I'm looking for my car keys."

18 men were sent to . . . "question" this guy? Forget the bone saw and dissection expert, no, actually, you cannot forget that.

"Got into a fist fight" . . . with 18 men?

We have all been drunk.

We have regrets.

We have all had [His--Ed.] Mom . . . NO! Stop that!

We have regrets.

Anyone think they can take on 18 military-grade security operatives? 18 anything? At any stage of inebriation, hallucination, psychosis?

So this, let us be fair, fat-fuck who probably became winded when riding an elevator, decided to attack 18 guys with his fists?

How did he die? All 18 punched him? He trip and fall down 37 [37?--Ed.] flights of stairs onto a bed of spikes that was scheduled to be removed by the Spike Floor Removal Inc just the following morning?

Okay, so he had a heart attack which caused his head to come off. We have all seen that . . . never . . . that has never happened.

What next? They discovered he was Xtro? Nyarl would get that. The Thing escaped from Antarctica and ended up in Turkey so everyone had to test their blood, no, I got it! He was internally transporting nuculur weapons grade uranium to Iran so they had break him up for the Sake of the Children!

Remember when I blathered about how you do NOT want to unite Democrats and Republicans YOU? Well, Trump has, strangely presidentially, indicated he would "work with Congress" on a response. The Idiot in Charge of Saudi Arabia--because only an idiot would think this plan would work or would be idiotic enough to hire people who would think this and then all of the other excuses would work--just handed his dick to Trump, Democrats, Republicans, and Turkey.

And Iran. "Hey, when we make someone disappear, they disappear."

So now they have to produce the "body."

"We . . . um . . . cut him up."

"Great, where did you dispose of the pieces?"

"Um."

There is no "good answer" to that question.

Unbelievable arrogant stupidity.

--J.D.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Grammatron » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:15 am

We sent his body by mail and it got lost, in a fire, during a hurricane. Quite tragic really.

At the end of the day we can't switch regional allies. Who are you going to support instead, Iran?

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Doctor X » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:31 am

I bet they used DHL because they did not want to spring for FedEx, the FOOLS!

Exactly. That is the problem. However, along with the US collectively falling over themselves to, justifiably, hurt those responsible, expect other countries to do the same. Saudi Arabia will threaten to raise oil prices which others will react even worse. It is not like Saudi Arabia is the only oil producer. They also look further like shitheads.

There is a point where Great Powers conclude you have fucked up beyond your usefulness. Ferdinand Marcos did that and was smart enough to get out when Reagan ignored his phone calls. Saddam did not learn his lesson. Nor, really, did Qaddafi.

The question is--and I do not know so this is pure speculation--is if the US and others can force out the "Crown Prince." A lot will probably depend on the evidences--thanks. The Fall Guy in charge is a close friend of him so to think a friend of basically a dictator would carry out such a potentially blatant Violation of Pretty Much Everything in a Foreign Country that Hates You without permission?

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:35 am

Grammatron wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:15 am
We sent his body by mail and it got lost, in a fire, during a hurricane. Quite tragic really.

At the end of the day we can't switch regional allies. Who are you going to support instead, Iran?
Some would say we don't have to support either of them. It's not like if we don't support one then we have to start supporting the other.

Of course there's the nightmare scenario to think about too. If the House of Saud falls, who would replace them? A liberal democracy that respects human rights or something that would be . . . not nice? I think that fear of that latter scenario is the main reason why we support the Saudi monarchy. Still it's hard to keep supporting a regime that commits such blatant atrocities as this.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Skeeve » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:28 pm

Trump questions Saudi account on Khashoggi but praises Crown Prince
Saudi Arabia's explanation of how journalist Jamal Khashoggi died is "all over the place," US President Donald Trump has told the Washington Post in a new interview. However, the President also praised Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman, calling him a "strong person" with "very good control."
...
But Trump was supportive of Crown Prince's leadership, and reiterated the importance of economic ties between the two countries.
"He's seen as a person who can keep things under check," Trump said of Bin Salman, adding "I mean that in a positive way."
...
Statements from the UN, the EU and a number of western governments have criticized Riyadh's handling of the case, which has gone from blanket denials of any involvement to an admission Saturday morning that the journalist was, in fact, killed while visiting the Saudi diplomatic compound in the Turkish city.

The official Saudi line is that Khashoggi died accidentally after a confrontation in the consulate descended into a brawl.
...
Meanwhile Turkish officials say 15 Saudis traveled to Istanbul on the day of Khashoggi's disappearance. They say privately that he was dismembered at the consulate, and Saudi authorities have failed to produce his body or say where they believe it to be.

A source close to the Saudi Royal Palace told CNN that the location of Khashoggi's body is not known to the Saudis. The source said the body was handed over to a local "collaborator" after the killing, adding that it is not at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.
...at least not anymore...
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Giz » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:09 pm

Skeeve wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:28 pm
Trump questions Saudi account on Khashoggi but praises Crown Prince
Saudi Arabia's explanation of how journalist Jamal Khashoggi died is "all over the place," US President Donald Trump has told the Washington Post in a new interview. However, the President also praised Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman, calling him a "strong person" with "very good control."
...
But Trump was supportive of Crown Prince's leadership, and reiterated the importance of economic ties between the two countries.
"He's seen as a person who can keep things under check," Trump said of Bin Salman, adding "I mean that in a positive way."
....
...at least not anymore...
Yeah, he doesn’t let dissidents get out of hand. A divide and conquer strategy. Doesn’t put a foot wrong.

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by gnome » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:01 pm

If we must continue to ally with the Saudis in spite of actions like this, is it necessary that we support a pretense? Why not say, "Ey, fuck you, buddy", demand our weregild and then move on?

Ooh, gnome looked up a word!

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by corplinx » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:35 pm

This is only a big dot deal in our media because the US media thinks it hurts Trump.

Change my mind from that cynical but probably correct truth.

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:54 pm

So he is one of "ours" if you're a Democrat. :lmao:
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by gnome » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:33 pm

corplinx wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:35 pm
This is only a big dot deal in our media because the US media thinks it hurts Trump.

Change my mind from that cynical but probably correct truth.
Is there a similar incident that you're comparing to?
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Doctor X » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:42 pm

It is really not the responsibility of anyone to change cement.

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:43 pm

The big deal right now with Saudi Arabia which is part of the permanent bi-partisan foreign policy is their war of total extermination in Yemen.

Not just we trade oil for military hardware.

You don't hear much about that, but it's not exactly a secret either.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by xouper » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:57 pm

corplinx wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:35 pm
This is only a big dot deal in our media because the US media thinks it hurts Trump.

Change my mind from that cynical but probably correct truth.
That has been my (admittedly cynical) suspicion all along.

I too am willing to be persuaded otherwise.

Good luck getting a straight answer from this forum (that is, one that’s not dripping with sarcasm, deflection, innuendo, or one liners, etc).

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Skeeve » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:20 pm

Erdogan: Turkey will reveal the ‘naked truth’ about Khashoggi’s death
Turkey’s president said he will “go into detail” on Tuesday about his country’s investigation into the death of Jamal Khashoggi after Saudi Arabia claimed the dissident journalist died after getting into a fistfight with security officers at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

“We are looking for justice here and this will be revealed in all its naked truth, not through some ordinary steps but in all its naked truth,” President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Sunday at a rally in Istanbul.

Saudi officials initially said Khashoggi, 60, left the consulate in Istanbul unharmed after entering the building on Oct. 2.

Eighteen days later, they finally said that Khashoggi, who was critical in his writings of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, got into a fight after entering the consulate to get paperwork so he could marry his fiancee and was strangled.

Saudi officials said five top officials were fired – including the deputy intelligence chief – and 18 others were arrested because of the investigation.

But Turkish officials said a 15-member hit team arrived from Riyadh in private jets the same day Khashoggi disappeared and tortured, killed and dismembered the writer before jetting out of the country that evening.

The whereabouts of Khashoggi’s body are still unknown.
The Naked Truth....wasn't that a TV show back in the 60's?

Anyway, I guess it will take until Tuesday to...finish that audio recording?....okay I give up, why wait until Tuesday?
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by shuize » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:29 pm

corplinx wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:35 pm
This is only a big dot deal in our media because the US media thinks it hurts Trump.

Change my mind from that cynical but probably correct truth.
I'm open to other explanations, but I tend to agree with this as well.

No love for the Saudis. They are fucking animals. But they've been killing gays and stoning rape victims for a long time. Now the media cares?

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Witness » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:08 pm

Let's have a thought for Jamal's fiancée who, amidst all the horrible news, perhaps still clings to a shred of hope. :(

In some news I read that the Saudis have arrested 15 people – the team, I presume – plus three "local" dudes. Weird as the latest version is that it was a kinda accident. (The bone saw, &c., gives me great confidence in this.)
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/21/saudi-o ... death.html

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by gnome » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:25 am

Instead of wringing our hands as to what the media's motivations are, why not discuss its significance regardless of how the media puts it? I'm more interested in the incident than whether the media sucks. Spoiler: It does.

I think an open assassination would be a big deal. Have we blown off (as a matter of policy, not media) something like this before?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:13 am

At a time like this you can think of a million excuses to minimize it or look the other way, but that's what allows stuff like this to continue. If we just ignore it or shrug our shoulders, then they get away with it. And it means it will happen again.

What we have here is an opportunity to hold someone who abused their power accountable, even if not to the extent he truly deserves. Just because others have gotten away with similar abuses of power in the past, is not a very good reason to look the other way now. This sort of thing will continue until the costs of doing it become too high.
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