Jamal Khashoggi

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:51 am

Tyler Cowen:

The U.S. Needs Saudi Arabia, and Vice Versa

The Washington Post:

This is the first step to recalibrating U.S.-Saudi relations

We may still need the Saudis but probably not as much as they need us. I think they need to be reigned in.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Skeeve » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:25 am

Well, today is Tuesday.
Why Won’t Turkey Release the Khashoggi Tapes?

They haven't settled in on the highest bidder yet?
They are hoping for one more day of anticipation?
It doesn't exist?

Okay, I give up, why?
The soundtrack to Jamal Khashoggi’s beating, vivisection, and murder lasts just seven minutes, according to Turkish officials who spoke anonymously to several outlets yesterday. By the end of the recording, the screams have subsided, and Khashoggi is dead, although his alleged killer—a Saudi doctor named Salah Muhammed al-Tubaigy—must have continued sawing away at his limbs for some time after. (It takes about two minutes to saw through a human femur with a manual bone saw, and longer than that to dissect the soft tissue around it.)

I hope never to hear this tape. But I want someone to hear it, and soon. The Turkish officials have leaked details of this operation with frustrating caginess. They promise that the tapes exist, and that they were recorded with Khashoggi’s own Apple Watch. They have shared their account of the tapes with journalists and foreign powers, including the United States—but they have not shared the tapes themselves. It’s time for them to end the steady drip of leaks and reveal the source material. By the descriptions we’ve heard so far, that material must be awfully difficult to fake. You can’t exactly go to Craigslist to hire a Jamal Khashoggi impersonator to scream in Saudi dialect as if his fingers are being chopped off.
...
The release of the recording need not be to the general public. It has been described in detail to The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and to government-friendly media from Turkey and Qatar.
...
Failure to release the tapes does not mean they do not exist. ....
Has ANYONE (Besides"government-friendly media from Turkey and Qatar") actually listened to this who will go on the record and say so?
...
All signs point to an assassination by Saudi Arabia. At this point, the slow leakage by Turkey is beginning to feel like a game in which one country is running up the score against another. In diplomacy this happens sometimes, and it is no surprise. But those who value truth should now demand the irrefutable evidence we have been promised, and should grow more skeptical of its existence if those who have profited from whispering about it for the past two weeks cannot produce it.
Or at the very least, move on to the next news item....
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Skeeve » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:38 am

UPDATE: Turkish president rejects Saudi account of Khashoggi killing
The Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, has publicly torn down Saudi claims that the dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi died in a fight in its Istanbul consulate, making fresh allegations that his death was a premeditated murder and calling for an independent investigation in Turkey..

In the hotly anticipated address at the Turkish parliament in Ankara, in which the president had promised to reveal the “naked truth” about what happened to Khashoggi, Erdoğan said he was not satisfied with Riyadh’s version of events of what happened and called for the “highest ranked” of those responsible to be brought to justice.
Still no audio recording as far as I can tell....

:Popcorn:
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:08 pm

I don't wanna be all tu quoque, but who the fuck is Turkey to complain?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... rom_Turkey

For the record, I don't give a fuck about Jamal Khashoggi. Nor do I give a fuck about the Crown Prince of sand-land. Dictator Has Journalist Assassinated, film at eleventy11!. If murder can be funny, this is a funny one.
On May 20, 2017, U.S. President Donald Trump and Saudi Arabia's King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud signed a series of letters of intent for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to purchase arms from the United States totaling US$110 billion immediately, and $350 billion over 10 years.
The trick is to find a rug thick enough to sweep all this under.
Domestic demand for carpets in Saudi Arabia was estimated at $1,026 million in 2000, which is expected to reach $1,106 million in 2002. The value of inland production capacity was estimated at $1,010 million in 2000. Out of this, value of locally sold carpet was 941 million and remaining US $ 69 million was exported. This indicates the potential of developing carpet and carpet raw materials market in Saudi Arabia.
They are experts.

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:45 pm

It's not so much "who the fuck is Turkey to complain" as possible Turkish involvement with the murder contrary to the will of Erdogan.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Skeeve » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:06 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:08 pm
I don't wanna be all tu quoque, but who the fuck is Turkey to complain?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... rom_Turkey
SERIOUSLY!!
Who are they to get up on their "high horse" and go on like this?

Fucking Turkey, home of the Armenian Genocide?
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Skeeve » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:26 pm

Report: Saudi Journalist Khashoggi's Remains Found
The remains of dissident Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi have been found, Sky News reported on Tuesday, with one source saying remains were found in the garden of the Saudi consul general's home.

Multiple sources suggested Khashoggi had been cut up and his face "disfigured," Sky News reported.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by corplinx » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:13 pm

Just claim he was a terr'rist even if he personally committed no act of terrorism.

I'm still amused by all this moral authority built on sand.

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Giz » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:54 pm

Skeeve wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:26 pm
Report: Saudi Journalist Khashoggi's Remains Found
The remains of dissident Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi have been found, Sky News reported on Tuesday, with one source saying remains were found in the garden of the Saudi consul general's home.

Multiple sources suggested Khashoggi had been cut up and his face "disfigured," Sky News reported.
Pushing up daisies.

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Doctor X » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:13 pm

He's restin'.

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Skeeve » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:11 pm

Trump calls Saudi response to Khashoggi death 'the worst cover-up ever'
President Donald Trump on Tuesday called the killing of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi and its aftermath the "worst cover-up ever," as new information continues to be revealed about the journalist's death at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

“They had a very bad original concept, it was carried out poorly and the cover up was the worst in the history of cover-ups, very simple,” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. “They had the worst cover-up ever. Where it should have stopped is at the deal standpoint, when they thought about it. Because whoever thought of that idea, I think is in big trouble. And they should be in big trouble."
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:50 pm

What a fucking idiot he is, telling it like it really is. Does he not have handlers?
“They had a very bad original concept, it was carried out poorly and the cover up was the worst in the history of cover-ups, very simple,”
JFC the guy needs Cliff Notes or something. So it wasn't that it was the wrong thing to do, but that it was done incompetently?

Fuck. I'm not going to vote for his third term.

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:08 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:50 pm
What a fucking idiot he is, telling it like it really is. Does he not have handlers?
“They had a very bad original concept, it was carried out poorly and the cover up was the worst in the history of cover-ups, very simple,”
JFC the guy needs Cliff Notes or something. So it wasn't that it was the wrong thing to do, but that it was done incompetently?

Fuck. I'm not going to vote for his third term.
Not that I support him but it's sort of refreshing to have a politician who says what he really thinks instead of what he thinks he's supposed to say.

Who famously said "It's worse than a crime, it's a mistake"?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Giz » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:56 pm

The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
- Obama

No it doesn’t.
- the universe

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:13 am

Giz wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:56 pm
The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
- Obama

No it doesn’t.
- the universe
Did Obama say that?

I was already famous as a Dr. Martin Luther King quote, and I'm guessing Obama quoted it as such.

King got it from Harry Emerson Fosdick.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Giz » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:27 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:13 am
Giz wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:56 pm
The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
- Obama

No it doesn’t.
- the universe
Did Obama say that?

I was already famous as a Dr. Martin Luther King quote, and I'm guessing Obama quoted it as such.

King got it from Harry Emerson Fosdick.
Fosdick? Sounds like a dick.... [checks wiki]... thought America was wrong to enter ww1, anti-Zionist... yup, (fos)dick.

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:05 am

Giz wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:56 pm
The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
- Obama

No it doesn’t.
- the universe
Are we still buring witches and heretics? Did we end chattel slavery?

I don't know if "justice" is really the best word because it's a little hard to define, but I think in the long run it tends toward a more humane society. :notsure:
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Witness » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:45 am


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:43 am

Reportedly the director of the CIA has now visited Turkey and heard the audio tape that the Turks said they have.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... hoggi-tape
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Witness » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:04 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:43 am
Reportedly the director of the CIA has now visited Turkey and heard the audio tape that the Turks said they have.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... hoggi-tape
He's of course totally fluent in Arabic…


Jamal Khashoggi: Saudi prosecutor says killing of journalist was 'pre-meditated crime'

Latest change in Saudi narrative comes as journalist's son allowed to leave country
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 00526.html