Jamal Khashoggi

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:16 pm

Witness wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:07 pm
“He told me that he had nothing to do with it,” Trump said
Well I guess he must be innocent then!
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Witness » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:28 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:16 pm
Witness wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:07 pm
“He told me that he had nothing to do with it,” Trump said
Well I guess he must be innocent then!
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by shuize » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:31 pm

I can understand why realpolitik might require we give the scumbag Saudis a pass on this murder. But I don't have to like it. And while I doubt the media is interested in anything more than trying to make Trump look bad, I think he could do a better job explaining the U.S. position to the American people than "Well, my friend the Prince said he didn't do it."

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Doctor X » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:56 am

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by gnome » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:17 am

shuize wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:31 pm
I can understand why realpolitik might require we give the scumbag Saudis a pass on this murder. But I don't have to like it. And while I doubt the media is interested in anything more than trying to make Trump look bad, I think he could do a better job explaining the U.S. position to the American people than "Well, my friend the Prince said he didn't do it."
This is where the criticism of "Not presidential" comes from, I think. He bumbles his way through important communications, leaving the impression he doesn't give a damn.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:28 am

"Not giving a damn" appears to resonate with the base.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by gnome » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:59 pm

The same people that voted him in because career politicians "don't care about you".

I see it as promoting the idea that you can run a country on ignorance, or pretend to, and people celebrating that scares the crap out of me.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Doctor X » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:25 pm

That was eight years of Obama.

Things never change, apparently.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by ed » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:59 pm

gnome wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:59 pm
The same people that voted him in because career politicians "don't care about you".

I see it as promoting the idea that you can run a country on ignorance, or pretend to, and people celebrating that scares the crap out of me.
The country is run on ignorance. Tell me about those WMDs in Iraq.

Obama exposed us to greater danger due to his willful ignorance of the world than many of his predecessors.

Thing is the people running things are human and ignorant.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by gnome » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:31 pm

In the past, I've seen a president's supporters (and I'll include myself) argue whether it was so... and fall mute when he was embarrassed. I've never seen so many people seem to be happy that the President lacks in-depth knowledge.

Also, isn't there a difference between the kind of ignorance that leads you to take facts and draw the wrong conclusions, because perhaps you have a bias filter, or a flawed vision of the world, or a political agenda other than what you're stating--and the kind of ignorance that is genuinely not even interested in the details and making the kind of gut responses someone who hasn't studied the information at all would make?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:58 am

Statement from President Donald J. Trump on Standing with Saudi Arabia

Short version: because of the amount of money they're spending buying our weapons, I'll let this slide. :freedom:
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Doctor X » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:03 am

That "and Iran."

However, "what" is he suppose to do--and I did not like his response--especially if there is evidences--thanks--that not only the crown prince but the king who knew/approved/ordered this murder.

See the treatment of Pinochet.

I suspect he is playing the "good cop" and is going to allow Congress to play the "bad cop."

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:13 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:58 am
Statement from President Donald J. Trump on Standing with Saudi Arabia

Short version: because of the amount of money they're spending buying our weapons, I'll let this slide. :freedom:
The exact same policy toward Saudi Arabia (and their crimes) as every other US administration since the end of WWII.

At least these days we don't really need their oil any more and they are reliably pro-Israel. 8)
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:56 am

Not really surprising, but noted for the record:

Saudi Arabia 'tortured female activists', charities say
Prisoners in the kingdom's Dhahban Prison have allegedly been electrocuted and flogged.

Saudi Arabia arrested several women's rights activists earlier this year and influential clerics and intellectuals have also been detained.

The BBC has approached the Saudi authorities for comment.

However, a Saudi official told the Wall Street Journal the kingdom "does not condone, promote, or allow the use of torture".
Yeah, sure they don't. Just like they had no idea what happened to Jamal Khashoggi until the evidence became overwhelming.
Both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch issued statements on Tuesday detailing alleged torture of detained prisoners.

Activists were left unable to walk or stand properly after electrocution and flogging, an Amnesty International release said, with one woman reportedly sexually harassed by interrogators in face masks.

Human Rights Watch's release also speaks of electrocution, as well as whipping and "forcible hugging and kissing" of at least three detained women.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by WildCat » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:23 pm

Democrats: it's wrong to make deals with Saudi Arabia but good to make deals with Iran because reasons.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:40 pm

WildCat wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:23 pm
Democrats: it's wrong to make deals with Saudi Arabia but good to make deals with Iran because reasons.
No Democrat president in office ever had problems making deals with Saudi Arabia.

Some things go beyond mere partisanship.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by WildCat » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:09 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:40 pm
WildCat wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:23 pm
Democrats: it's wrong to make deals with Saudi Arabia but good to make deals with Iran because reasons.
No Democrat president in office ever had problems making deals with Saudi Arabia.

Some things go beyond mere partisanship.
Trump is just publicly acknowledging the realpolitik, whereas others would dance around it and couch it in flowery diplomatic language.

And they say Trump isn't honest!
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Witness » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:42 pm



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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:23 am

WildCat wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:23 pm
Democrats: it's wrong to make deals with Saudi Arabia but good to make deals with Iran because reasons.
:roll:

I'll counter with an equally asinine strawman

Trump: it's wrong to make deals with Iran but good to make deals with North Korea because reasons.
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi

Post by WildCat » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:52 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:23 am
WildCat wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:23 pm
Democrats: it's wrong to make deals with Saudi Arabia but good to make deals with Iran because reasons.
:roll:

I'll counter with an equally asinine strawman

Trump: it's wrong to make deals with Iran but good to make deals with North Korea because reasons.
The deal with North Korea didn't involve a planeload of cash and permission to develop nukes in 10 years while they work on the delivery systems now.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj